How Are Timelines Connected?

[Num7]

Hey everyone,

I currently consider venturing into the world of sci-fi writing. And obviously, I’ll include time travel and/or timeline hopping. I’m wondering what are your opinions/ideas on the way timelines are (or might be) connected to one another.

Do you believe it might be possible to access any timeline from any other timeline? Or is there some sort of hierarchy in place? Like a tree with a trunk, branches, and leaves? Or constellations of timelines? Local groups, etc?

These are all possibilities I thought about. I’m not decided yet, so I’m curious to know what your ideas are.

Thanks!

 

[Darby]

I’d have to say, no. It’s not possible. These multiple timeline ideas assume that the Many Worlds Interpretation is valid. Many Worlds was somewhat in vogue in the physics community twenty plus years ago but no longer. Physicists have kicked its tires and it just doesn’t fly. The last time I checked, which was earlier this year, there were zero US grants outstanding for Many Worlds research. But for the sake of the thread I’ll assume it is valid. With that in mind…

What was the purpose of Many Worlds? It was to resolve what Hugh Everett thought were untenable aspects of quantum mechanics involving the collapse of the wave function so that it resolved to a single outcome for a quantum event (The Copenhagen Interpretation - Neils Bohr. Everett couldn’t reconcile that there was a physical thing called a wave function that could collapse. It didn’t make sense to him and in his mind added instead of eliminating paradoxes (such as Schrodinger’s Cat). By proposing that every possible outcome was real the world would split into as many new worlds as there were allowed possibilities - he resolved his paradoxes. These new branches would then evolve completely independent of the original. That was the entire purpose of Many Worlds - to resolve the wave function failure and allow the new timelines to evolve in another universe not affected by any other universe.

What doe s this mean? At the instant of the split the original single timeline terminated. It no longer evolved or even moved forward in time. It simply came to a halt. That means there is no “original” timeline to return to. Attempting to do that would be a new quantum event and a new set of branches would appear. In other words it is absolutely impossible to go back. Period.

Attempting to travel to some other timeline involves a quantum event and a new set of branches. You cannot travel to some other branch. They are not accessible; that’s the entire point of Many Worlds; they are no longer a part of your reality. Ever. Period.

If it was somehow possible to travel to another preexisting timeline a paradox would appear. You have a theory of physics that specifically forbids such travel yet you accomplish the task. Therefore your physics theory is not correct. How, therefore, if the theory is not correct, did you manage to use the invalid theory to violate the basis for the theory and travel to a forbidden region? This paradox has no possible resolution.

 

[Num7]

What doe s this mean? At the instant of the split the original single timeline terminated. It no longer evolved or even moved forward in time. It simply came to a halt. That means there is no “original” timeline to return to. Attempting to do that would be a new quantum event and a new set of branches would appear. In other words it is absolutely impossible to go back. Period.

Attempting to travel to some other timeline involves a quantum event and a new set of branches. You cannot travel to some other branch. They are not accessible; that’s the entire point of Many Worlds; they are no longer a part of your reality. Ever. Period.

That’s interesting, it makes sense that this original timeline doesn’t exist anymore. Which, therefore, makes it impossible to go back. Can’t consider traveling to something that doesn’t exist anymore, nor reach it, or see it…

One of the ideas I had in mind, was that perhaps through some sci-fi means, our heroes would be able to reach certain other realities, by adjusting/tuning themselves (or their vehicle/ship) to the frequencies of another reality. Even though it’d be convenient, I’d still have to explain how these other realities exist without causing a major quantum headache, or unsolvable paradoxes.

These timelines have to exist in order to travel to them… That’s a problem!

If it was somehow possible to travel to another preexisting timeline a paradox would appear. You have a theory of physics that specifically forbids such travel yet you accomplish the task. Therefore your physics theory is not correct. How, therefore, if the theory is not correct, did you manage to use the invalid theory to violate the basis for the theory and travel to a forbidden region? This paradox has no possible resolution.

This is great stuff, I love how it sounds and especially how it circles back around. A true paradox. I’m going to keep this line of thought in mind for future use.

What would happen if the laws of physics were different in other realities? Would it be of any help to us, from our end? I.E. Would it help us, from here, to travel to those realities? That is, considering these other realities do exist, of course. I don’t want to argue about the points you’ve made, I’m happy with everything you’ve said. I’m just curious what you’d make of it.

Thanks!

 

[DrHawkinsBrimble]

The idea of parallel universes, alternate timelines, or multiverse theories is a fascinating topic that has been explored in theoretical physics and some works of fiction. The nature of any potential hierarchy, tree-like structure, constellations, or local groups of timelines is entirely speculative and depends on the specific theoretical framework being discussed.

 

[Darby]

What would happen if the laws of physics were different in other realities?

Well, that would have to involve some unknown theory of physics that isn’t Many Worlds Interpretation. The result in-so-far as travel from one universe to those other universes would be the same. The laws of physics are different therefore you can’t exist in those universes. I’ve mentioned many times before that if the electric charge was even slightly different one way or the other atoms couldn’t exist, at least as we know them. Electron orbitals would be different and chemistry would fail or the electrons would crash into the nucleus. The balancing act between the Coulomb Force (electric attraction/repulsion) and the Strong Nuclear Force in the nucleus of atoms would fail. If the Strong Force was different quarks would fail. The same would be true for the Weak Force (nuclear decay) and gravitation. We are born of star dust, it is said. If the four fundamental forces were different nucleosynthesis in stellar novae and super novae would fail. There would be no Main Sequence for stars.

You can take the weak or strong anthropic principle and say that we are here because the universe evolved to allow us (weak) or the universe was set up specifically for us (strong) and the answer is the same. We are Goldilocks and this universe is the Goldilocks Zone.

 

[Num7]

if the electric charge was even slightly different one way or the other atoms couldn’t exist, at least as we know them

That’s a pretty basic premise from which everything depends. But it makes sense. You’re right. Even a small change to the laws of physics - as we know them - would prevent everything we know from existing.

For instance, if by some unknown means, I teleported to a universe where my atoms can’t possibly exist or remain together… I’d crumble and vanish. I never considered that possibility. We tend to think of other universes as variations of ours with the same themes and laws of physics in place…

Is it okay to assume that in a universe with different laws of physics, things would find a way to exist and happen anyway? Probably in crazy, unimaginable, and incomprehensible ways. But still, they’d be.

 

[Silent Starling]

If ‘many worlds theory’ is a reality (despite what ‘current’ academia might suggest - it still has no idea either way and merely journeys down its own rabbit hole in order to speculate and quantify its relational deductions), then you might want to look down a different avenue when you want discuss the idea of ‘being connected’. The science still isn’t there yet, so you have no other choice but to walk that slippery slope of science/occultism

The notion of ‘intention’ may pose a far more interesting basis for prospective discussion. The human body itself emits a toroidal field. This is quite significant. The earth also generates a toroidal field. Behind the human toroidal field, appears to be a conscious element which dictates how this field is used. Most notably it dictates all aspects pertaining to the body. It quite literally manifests your Will into this dimension (as well as others but that is a rather large aside). The brush is the body and the canvas upon which this is painted, is (Mass)Space-time. You are a child playing with a cosmic abacus under will. That abacus is near infinite on each axis. Move one piece and the entire structure shifts to accommodate that which has been moved. The idea of ‘many worlds’ is that for each potential (reality) manifest - each movement of the abacus - there is were many more that did not. At least that is your perception from your current vantage point.

A timeline is just another way of saying a different reality - different version of here and now. A different combination of the abacus. Truly, It goes behind the notion of time.

If a form of consciousness is ‘behind’ your toroidal field. Then we are still yet to uncover what form is behind the planet’s. The planet itself, of course, has a much greater kick when it comes to interacting with space time.

If you were wanting to uncover this conundrum of ‘connectedness’ then it might be best to understand how these two connect. There are absolutely bridges in nature.

The symphony of the Universe (here and now) is the current by which we flow. You are the ferrite rod. If you wanted to create a form of inductance, you need only find the right method or ‘coil’. You may find yourself out of sync with here and now. You would be much closer to the realm of there and then.

There are places where the ‘Laws’ of here and now do not apply.

 

[Cosmo]

I like this discussion.

I think it's true that the lack of funding and support for many-worlds research might suggest it's fallen out of favor in the scientific community. Science fiction (to me anyhow) is about exploring ideas and possibilities beyond the current consensus though. So, while keeping in mind the stringent realities of physics, there's always broad spectrum to venture into when it comes to storytelling.

Silent Starling's mention on the power of intention and the toroidal field could be a great one to lean into. The universe being seen as a symphony, and us as ferrite rods, is a great metaphor. I think it brings into focus that, while the scientific framework might dictate a set of rules, the power of consciousness and intent might operate on a different spectrum altogether.

If we are to consider the myriad of ways the universe(s) could operate, one intriguing avenue might be to think of realities as states of consciousness. In the same way our dreams provide an alternate reality while we sleep, could it be possible that other 'realities' are just differing states of collective consciousness? Our toroidal field might be governed by a form of consciousness, so perhaps there's a "master consciousness" or universal force that intertwines these realities?

 

[LeoTCK]

Perhaps that universal force is just the "aether". A background medium.