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"The future ain't what it used to be."

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Mylo.X. said:
That's quite an assertion as well as the other assertion you make that a time traveller will never be female.
Click to expand...
Hi Mylo.X. Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately i can not go into depth regarding the exclusion of Woman Time Travelers, But it has to do with the possibility of her being pregnant and traveling to the future or past and giving birth there, which could cause a paradox., alternatively there may be a chance of the Woman Time traveler either traveling back or forward in time and becoming pregnant there. the most I can say is the evolution of man and the chance that the DNA would not be compatible in a future or past time, causing an unstable Time Line or alternative Time Line
 
vodkafan said:
There are female time travellers in my story...the story wouldn't be half as much fun without them.
Click to expand...
vodkafan said:
There are female time travellers in my story...the story wouldn't be half as much fun without them.
Click to expand...
vodkafan said:
There are female time travellers in my story...the story wouldn't be half as much fun without them.
Click to expand...
Hi Vodkafan. Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately i can not go into depth regarding the exclusion of Woman Time Travelers, But it has to do with the possibility of her being pregnant and traveling to the future or past and giving birth there, which could cause a paradox., alternatively there may be a chance of the Woman Time traveler either traveling back or forward in time and becoming pregnant there. the most I can say is the evolution of man and the chance that the DNA would not be compatible in a future or past time, causing an unstable Time Line or alternative Time Line
 
Michael Janks said:
Hi Vodkafan. Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately i can not go into depth regarding the exclusion of Woman Time Travelers, But it has to do with the possibility of her being pregnant and traveling to the future or past and giving birth there, which could cause a paradox., alternatively there may be a chance of the Woman Time traveler either traveling back or forward in time and becoming pregnant there. the most I can say is the evolution of man and the chance that the DNA would not be compatible in a future or past time, causing an unstable Time Line or alternative Time Line
Click to expand...


Sorry Michael your assertion carries no logic: A man carries half the DNA of any potential foetus . A male time traveller can impregnate a woman Whenever time he goes to and create just as catastrophic a paradox. How is that any different?
Are you implying that a female time traveller could not be trusted not to get pregnant as soon as she got somewhen else?
 

  1. Michael Janks    New Member    ​
    Mylo.X. said: ↑​
    That's quite an assertion as well as the other assertion you make that a time traveller will never be female.​
    Hi Mylo.X. Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately i can not go into depth regarding the exclusion of Woman Time Travelers, But it has to do with the possibility of her being pregnant and traveling to the future or past and giving birth there, which could cause a paradox., alternatively there may be a chance of the Woman Time traveler either traveling back or forward in time and becoming pregnant there. the most I can say is the evolution of man and the chance that the DNA would not be compatible in a future or past time, causing an unstable Time Line or alternative Time Line​
    #4​
  2. Michael JanksNew Member​
    vodkafan said: ↑​
    There are female time travellers in my story...the story wouldn't be half as much fun without them.​
    vodkafan said: ↑​
    There are female time travellers in my story...the story wouldn't be half as much fun without them.​
    vodkafan said: ↑​
    There are female time travellers in my story...the story wouldn't be half as much fun without them.​
    Hi Vodkafan. Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately i can not go into depth regarding the exclusion of Woman Time Travelers, But it has to do with the possibility of her being pregnant and traveling to the future or past and giving birth there, which could cause a paradox., alternatively there may be a chance of the Woman Time traveler either traveling back or forward in time and becoming pregnant there. the most I can say is the evolution of man and the chance that the DNA would not be compatible in a future or past time, causing an unstable Time Line or alternative Time Line​
    #5​
    ​
    ________________________________________________________​
    As the b.s. gets deeper and deeper in here, take care not to become buried in it.​
 
As an engineer, I appreciate technical accuracy of the highest sort. It helps me understand how to analyze a phenomena or what someone is saying about a phenomena. That said...

Michael Janks said:
the most I can say is the evolution of man and the chance that the DNA would not be compatible in a future or past time, causing an unstable Time Line or alternative Time Line
Click to expand...

Could you please, accurately, define what makes a Time Line unstable? A lot of my work is in aircraft stability and control, so you can trust that I should be able to understand quite complicated aspects of stability of anything. I won't even ask about "alternative Time Line" (why the caps), because that faux-concept has been beaten to death and misinterpreted with respect to certain scientific papers (e.g. Many World Interpretation).

Please and thanks,
RMT
 
Michael Janks said:
Hi Vodkafan. Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately i can not go into depth regarding the exclusion of Woman Time Travelers, But it has to do with the possibility of her being pregnant and traveling to the future or past and giving birth there, which could cause a paradox., alternatively there may be a chance of the Woman Time traveler either traveling back or forward in time and becoming pregnant there. the most I can say is the evolution of man and the chance that the DNA would not be compatible in a future or past time, causing an unstable Time Line or alternative Time Line
Click to expand...


Michael,

I'm with Ray regarding "unstable Time Lines" and "alternative Time Lines". Absent some physics based definitions of these terms we can't be sure what they mean.

A female time traveler giving birth doesn't necessarily introduce a paradox. If that's when the child is born, then that's when the child is born. There's no violation of the laws of physics and no violation of causality. The general population may not be aware of when she became pregnant, possibly resulting in some confusion in their minds. That's because they lack certain facts. She would have all the facts, would have lived the period in a very linear temporal fashion: she got pregnant --> carried the fetus --> gave birth in that order. She wouldn't be confused or perceive a paradox. The series of events are self-consistent.

DNA incompatibility wouldn't be a problem. There would simply be no pregnancy. There's no logical reason or physics reason for this to rip open the fabric of space-time and cause instability.

That all being said, there are scenarios where time travelers and pregnancy can lead to paradoxes. It makes no difference whether the time traveler is male or female. I'll give you a female scenario. You can figure out the male version.

A female time traveler, age late 30's, travels to some point in the future. Say 200 years. It's an extended stay and while there she becomes pregnant and gives birth to a girl. Mom, uninterested in raising a child, immediately travels on into the more distant future never to return to any point in the past. Dad gets custody.

Dad dies while his daughter is 1 yr old. Daughter inherits a Box of technical papers left behind by Mom. Daughter is raised by foster families. The foster families have almost no information about Dad and no information about Mom.

Daughter is a physics progeny and graduates from university with a PhD in theoretical physics at age 20. She's looked at the papers in the Box before but now she fully understands them. They are plans for a time machine written by Mom circa the time that Mom apparently came from as evidenced by dates in the manuscript. Daughter builds the machine and time travels back hunting for Mom. She spends the next 18 years looking for Mom to no avail. Now in her late 30's she travels back to a year or so before her birth - again looking for Mom.

She doesn't find Mom but meets a man, they have an affair, she become pregnant, gives birth to a girl and names the girl after herself. She has no interest in motherhood, abandons her child to Dad and travels further into the future again looking for Mom - never to return to the past. She did, however, leave the Box of technical papers for her Daughter.

The first paradox is obvious: She gave birth to herself. The second paradox may not be so obvious: Where the hell did the plans for the time machine come from? These two situations are paradoxical because they are not self-consistent.
 
Michael Janks said:
A Time Traveler will never disclose his origin or his existence
Click to expand...

Michael,

Why not? Given that time travel implies "forever" being accessible and "now" being re-visitable, some time, some where, some time traveler will eventually spill the beans. In fact, the implication is that a potential infinite number of time travelers will have always spilled the beans.

The most closely guarded secret in US, Canadian and UK history was the Manhattan Project. That secret lasted for a few months before the beans were spilled all over the Kremlin. There were times when Stalin was briefed by the NKVD (later called KGB) about Manhattan advancements before Roosevelt was briefed by the War Department (now called DoD).
 
Darby said:
Michael,

I'm with Ray regarding "unstable Time Lines" and "alternative Time Lines". Absent some physics based definitions of these terms we can't be sure what they mean.

A female time traveler giving birth doesn't necessarily introduce a paradox. If that's when the child is born, then that's when the child is born. There's no violation of the laws of physics and no violation of causality. The general population may not be aware of when she became pregnant, possibly resulting in some confusion in their minds. That's because they lack certain facts. She would have all the facts, would have lived the period in a very linear temporal fashion: she got pregnant --> carried the fetus --> gave birth in that order. She wouldn't be confused or perceive a paradox. The series of events are self-consistent.

DNA incompatibility wouldn't be a problem. There would simply be no pregnancy. There's no logical reason or physics reason for this to rip open the fabric of space-time and cause instability.

That all being said, there are scenarios where time travelers and pregnancy can lead to paradoxes. It makes no difference whether the time traveler is male or female. I'll give you a female scenario. You can figure out the male version.

A female time traveler, age late 30's, travels to some point in the future. Say 200 years. It's an extended stay and while there she becomes pregnant and gives birth to a girl. Mom, uninterested in raising a child, immediately travels on into the more distant future never to return to any point in the past. Dad gets custody.

Dad dies while his daughter is 1 yr old. Daughter inherits a Box of technical papers left behind by Mom. Daughter is raised by foster families. The foster families have almost no information about Dad and no information about Mom.

Daughter is a physics progeny and graduates from university with a PhD in theoretical physics at age 20. She's looked at the papers in the Box before but now she fully understands them. They are plans for a time machine written by Mom circa the time that Mom apparently came from as evidenced by dates in the manuscript. Daughter builds the machine and time travels back hunting for Mom. She spends the next 18 years looking for Mom to no avail. Now in her late 30's she travels back to a year or so before her birth - again looking for Mom.

She doesn't find Mom but meets a man, they have an affair, she become pregnant, gives birth to a girl and names the girl after herself. She has no interest in motherhood, abandons her child to Dad and travels further into the future again looking for Mom - never to return to the past. She did, however, leave the Box of technical papers for her Daughter.

The first paradox is obvious: She gave birth to herself. The second paradox may not be so obvious: Where the hell did the plans for the time machine come from? These two situations are paradoxical because they are not self-consistent.
Click to expand...


Good one Darby! The papers in the box are a classic "bootstrap paradox" (information from nowhere) and the girl being her own mother are a twist on the "predestination paradox" I believe. But I had the impression that predestination paradoxes ARE self-consistent as the traveller actually becomes an integral part of the past events?
 
vodkafan said:
Sorry Michael your assertion carries no logic: A man carries half the DNA of any potential foetus . A male time traveller can impregnate a woman Whenever time he goes to and create just as catastrophic a paradox. How is that any different?
Are you implying that a female time traveller could not be trusted not to get pregnant as soon as she got somewhen else?
Click to expand...
Hi Vodkafan. You are perfectly correct in your assertion. Perhaps My explanation was not as I intended. A male Time traveler would not be able to impregnate a woman in a timeline where his DNA differs, he would simply be as if he were infertile and the impregnation just would not be possible. My main point was the possibility of a pregnant female traveling forward or backward in time and giving birth in another point in time other than her own. this brings in a new paradox being a birth of a child "Out Of Time" which seems more difficult to explain than the "Grand Father" paradox
 
Michael Janks said:
Hi Vodkafan. You are perfectly correct in your assertion. Perhaps My explanation was not as I intended. A male Time traveler would not be able to impregnate a woman in a timeline where his DNA differs, he would simply be as if he were infertile and the impregnation just would not be possible. My main point was the possibility of a pregnant female traveling forward or backward in time and giving birth in another point in time other than her own. this brings in a new paradox being a birth of a child "Out Of Time" which seems more difficult to explain than the "Grand Father" paradox
Click to expand...


These things often are! Well, go for it break it down a step at a time and we can examine how it pans out.
We can criticise yes but nobody will shoot you down for having a go...we love thinking about this stuff!
About the DNA question, it is true that vast lengths of time and genetic drift do create a barrier against reproduction ...for instance I cannot mate with a neanderthal woman because she is not here anymore..we are separated by time as if on different planets.
But the DNA does not change that fast....going back 200 or 500 years or even 5000 should be completely viable ...I would love to date a Proto Indo-European..and Jane Austen.
 
Darby said:
Michael,

I'm with Ray regarding "unstable Time Lines" and "alternative Time Lines". Absent some physics based definitions of these terms we can't be sure what they mean.

A female time traveler giving birth doesn't necessarily introduce a paradox. If that's when the child is born, then that's when the child is born. There's no violation of the laws of physics and no violation of causality. The general population may not be aware of when she became pregnant, possibly resulting in some confusion in their minds. That's because they lack certain facts. She would have all the facts, would have lived the period in a very linear temporal fashion: she got pregnant --> carried the fetus --> gave birth in that order. She wouldn't be confused or perceive a paradox. The series of events are self-consistent.

DNA incompatibility wouldn't be a problem. There would simply be no pregnancy. There's no logical reason or physics reason for this to rip open the fabric of space-time and cause instability.

That all being said, there are scenarios where time travelers and pregnancy can lead to paradoxes. It makes no difference whether the time traveler is male or female. I'll give you a female scenario. You can figure out the male version.

A female time traveler, age late 30's, travels to some point in the future. Say 200 years. It's an extended stay and while there she becomes pregnant and gives birth to a girl. Mom, uninterested in raising a child, immediately travels on into the more distant future never to return to any point in the past. Dad gets custody.

Dad dies while his daughter is 1 yr old. Daughter inherits a Box of technical papers left behind by Mom. Daughter is raised by foster families. The foster families have almost no information about Dad and no information about Mom.

Daughter is a physics progeny and graduates from university with a PhD in theoretical physics at age 20. She's looked at the papers in the Box before but now she fully understands them. They are plans for a time machine written by Mom circa the time that Mom apparently came from as evidenced by dates in the manuscript. Daughter builds the machine and time travels back hunting for Mom. She spends the next 18 years looking for Mom to no avail. Now in her late 30's she travels back to a year or so before her birth - again looking for Mom.

She doesn't find Mom but meets a man, they have an affair, she become pregnant, gives birth to a girl and names the girl after herself. She has no interest in motherhood, abandons her child to Dad and travels further into the future again looking for Mom - never to return to the past. She did, however, leave the Box of technical papers for her Daughter.

The first paradox is obvious: She gave birth to herself. The second paradox may not be so obvious: Where the hell did the plans for the time machine come from? These two situations are paradoxical because they are not self-consistent.
Click to expand...

Hi Darby
Thank you so much for replying. I fully get your answer and have to agree with you. Just a quick question should the mother give birth to a child ahead of her time and the child becomes in someway instrumental in a catastrophic event leading to a genocide. Would that Time Traveler responsible have to take responsibility?
 
Darby said:
Michael,

Why not? Given that time travel implies "forever" being accessible and "now" being re-visitable, some time, some where, some time traveler will eventually spill the beans. In fact, the implication is that a potential infinite number of time travelers will have always spilled the beans.

The most closely guarded secret in US, Canadian and UK history was the Manhattan Project. That secret lasted for a few months before the beans were spilled all over the Kremlin. There were times when Stalin was briefed by the NKVD (later called KGB) about Manhattan advancements before Roosevelt was briefed by the War Department (now called DoD).
Click to expand...
Hi Darby

Understood 100%. But I would like to think that time travel in the future would be closely guarded and only available to those who are completely versed and trained in the understanding and implications of one traveling in time. Therefore I would think there would be strict laws laid down and adhered to by a said Time traveler, one being not to disclose his existence to a time where Time Travel is yet not discovered
 
Michael Janks said:
Therefore I would think there would be strict laws laid down and adhered to by a said Time traveler, one being not to disclose his existence to a time where Time Travel is yet not discovered
Click to expand...


You mean like the laws we have today against committing murder, or against owning a firearm if you are a convicted felon? It is not enough to posit a law. One must also consider the likelihood of that law being followed by one and all. We see with ALL laws we pass in our society today, it is not just a matter of one or two people disobeying important laws. LARGE numbers of people will disobey a law, especially if they see a benefit to themselves. It does not even have to be a large benefit to themselves to break a law of today's technology. Now consider just how huge a benefit time traveling would be, and then estimate accordingly how many people you think will obey these laws. And in time travel, it only takes a few people not obeying such laws for people throughout time to become aware that time travel is a reality. Darby's point stands, completely notwithstanding any consideration you may give for any man-made (and man-enforced, if possible) laws for time traveling.

RMT
 
Michael Janks said:
Hi Darby

Understood 100%. But I would like to think that time travel in the future would be closely guarded and only available to those who are completely versed and trained in the understanding and implications of one traveling in time. Therefore I would think there would be strict laws laid down and adhered to by a said Time traveler, one being not to disclose his existence to a time where Time Travel is yet not discovered
Click to expand...

Again, that's the problem when considering the implications of time travel. If you have to guard a secret literally forever it will eventually fail to be kept. It only takes one instance of leaking the information for it to be leaked an infinite number of times both in the future and in the past. But if it is leaked in the past WRT you then it isn't a secret. The issue becomes one of who leaked the information and when? It would appear that the secret was never a secret at all, i.e. everyone already knows the information but no one can source the information. Paradoxically, the information appears to have created itself, so to speak.
 
Darby said:
Again, that's the problem when considering the implications of time travel. If you have to guard a secret literally forever it will eventually fail to be kept. It only takes one instance of leaking the information for it to be leaked an infinite number of times both in the future and in the past. But if it is leaked in the past WRT you then it isn't a secret. The issue becomes one of who leaked the information and when? It would appear that the secret was never a secret at all, i.e. everyone already knows the information but no one can source the information. Paradoxically, the information appears to have created itself, so to speak.
Click to expand...

I must respectfully elaborate on your statement that I have bolded to correct any misconceptions. You are correct in saying that there is an infinite amount of times that this information is leaked. Time is infinite, and therefore there are infinite instances of "spilling the beans". What you must understand though, is that while the "beans" are infinitely spilled and spread across proverbial time infinity amount of times, the spilling event itself is measured and documented with exactness. I may not be able to count how many beans were spilled, but I know that the bag was ripped open. Just as I will press the submit button for this post, it will be split into infinite time. Posted, post and will post. It's all the same because it simply is. What matters isn't the information itself, but the event that initiated it.

Infinity proceeds in infinite directions, and thus results in an endless amount of instances where the information is also curtailed and prevented from ever spreading.

Time travel is something rarely comprehended because humanity has yet to comprehend infinity. This will be something accomplished by machines far before humanity advances to higher thought processes.
 

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