Chronovisor Posts

Craig Cuthbert

February 2, 2001 4:06 pm
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The previous examples were all – of the uneducated “others” in the world, obviously.

WE, of course, are a part of that group which ranks itself at the very pinnacle of evolutionary capabilities.

Craig Cuthbert

February 2, 2001 3:23 pm
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50% of the world lives on $2.00 a day and a good portion of those not even that (general One-Worlder figure per Jimmy Carter on NPR the other day). Many of these people think the whole notion of a western world is a big myth. People living in tribes in parts of Africa, South America, and Western China would laugh if you were to tell them there are cities with more than a million people in them – they have automatic vehicles for transport – some even fly -, they communicate electronically, wash and cook using machines etc. That’s RIGHT HERE ON THIS PLANET. Should we go tell them about us? This concept right away illustrates some illusions about our (Western Worlders’) presence in the world.

John can you say more regarding this phenomenon and how future societies (might) handle the new frontiers of technology in our world?

About 4 or 5 years ago Art Bell had on a guest involved in researching feral humans. He told of a remote Venezuelan tribe that refused to believe there was a city such as Caracas. HE described how the senior tribesman tried to relate to the notion that there was such a type of civilization anywhere near them.

A couple of years before that I had some adventures here in the US. I began traveling around the country staying at Youth Hostels and working where I could. I found myself riding freight trains in the Pacific Northwest and had a last minute rider in my car. He threw his stuff in, climbed aboard and we had quite a few hours of conversation. He was a migrant worker who was starting the Apple Orchard season. (A not uncommon occupation for unskilled labor both foreign and domestic in the Northwest -though most non-immigrant workers will head out on the fishing boats for good/hard-earned money).

HE told me about leaving his little village in Oaxaca many years ago. When he left he was convinced that the jungle surrounding his village just continued on forever and was really surprised when he found other landscapes- cities-cultures. HE spent quite a few years listening to talk radio shows on his little walkmans, working and travelling. I was really surprised about how much he knew of history, politics, science and even overseas cultures.

I also have to say that, what I saw of Freight Train Riders, during this period. represented a fairly evolved subculture, and one not very involved in what we would consider the NORMAL world.

PBS ran the Jazz series a few weeks ago. When Louis Armstrong finally made the leap out of New Orleans and Kansas City to travel to New York to play with “King” Oliver’s band he was FOB (fresh off the boat), in a way. Dressed funny, and gawking at all the huge buildings of which was convinced were all Universities – huge Towers of Learning.

My father grew up in a little! town in the hills of western Pennsylvania. His parents were not the most educated tools in the shed. He has told me since that often when he was little he wondered whether all the stories about places like France, Germany etc. were just made up tales that got passed around on the radio and in print. Of course that could have been just him .

Just some examples, to me at least, about how little we know of the world … of which we think we know so much.

James Boley

February 2, 2001 1:05 pm
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John,

Rereading my last post, bogus came off a little strong. I did not mean to conflict with you per se, but tell you I don’t believe your story.

There are a couple of questions I would like answered.

First if you don’t care if we believe you or not, why are you posting here? What purpose do you have to tell part of your story?

Next, I assume that you would have superiors over seeing your work. What do they think of your use of the equipment for personel reasons?

Are you afraid of altering your reality in our future or your present in the slightest?

You have mentioned that there is a flux of change for every 60 years. This would suggest to me that you are also traveling across dimensions or as Star Trek lingo suggests, alternate realities. 8^) If you are doing this, is there any concern of yours or your comrades that you are affecting our future? Would that concern you if it did not affect you?

Is there such a thing, in your reality, as crimes against time? For example, killing an enemy while he is a child? Or changing the past to make your present more pleasant (lotteries and gaming franchises have been mentionned)?

I have said I do not believe your story, but I hope you will still answer my questions.

Matt Hagemeier

February 2, 2001 11:50 am
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john, I really don’t have much complaint about government, Although not perfect I still beilieve this is the best place to live on the planet. One thing the governemt needs to do is decriminelize drugs. The drug war is a useless wat.

So is the civil war started by those anti-gov types?

The next question is religion, if time travel is possible, what does that do to the reilgious? If I exist on many time lines, which one is really me? Did God create one “me”, or many “me’s”

What about movies, TV, Sports, Nebraska Cornhusker football, please don;t tell me there us no husker football in 2036.

John Titor

February 2, 2001 11:41 am
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I fail to understand why my words generate so much conflict. I think it’s far better for you to consider what I say as fantasy so there is no question of credibility. How is my credibility going to affect your life? I don’t want you to believe me and it doesn’t affect me in the least if you did.

I don’t know any other way to tell you that I am unaware of what happens in the next week, especially in Hollywood. Just curious…that’s a common question, why do you think I would know something about that?

Yes, it’s very possible that what I say would spin your future off into a different direction. But since what I say is “bogus” that shouldn’t be a problem.

On a philosophical level, the existence of multiple worlds implies a moral balance in the superverse. For every worldline you perform a good action, there is a worldline where you perform a bad action. There are no good and bad people, just good and bad decisions. We can only be responsible for what we do as individuals on the worldline we are on now. So take heart! Somewhere out there is a worldline where I’m spilling all the beans on Hockey, the stock market and Hollywood and you’re all off to Vegas and Wall Street making millions of dollars.

I do very much enjoy these conversations and I’m working on the other questions…

Randy Empey

February 2, 2001 11:36 am
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Based on the models John professes to beleive and to be the basis on the tech. that got him here, many of your reasons for disbelief, particular those just mentioned by James . . . are easily shot down or at least deflected.

If it is not the truth for John, it is atleast an ingeniously well constructed story.

Lets talk about those things John has been repetitiously asking to talk about . . . since, John’s being a TT may be his reality, but at the same time, never be part of one of us critique’s realities.

James Boley

February 2, 2001 11:17 am
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John,

I applaud your story. It would make for a great book or Hollywood movie.

You keep mentioning ethics as an excuse not to divulge information of the near future, however you still freely talk about other items such as the physics behind your machine or facts about the far future.

I have a hard time believing that time travel, if possible and if it will be done, would be done in such a lax way. What would happen if you, while traveling on personel business, died while visiting yourself. Or what if a scientist reading this thread who in the future will develop time travel alters his patterns of study and changes the future, thus changing you thus changing everything?

The mere chance of a severe dominoe effect would, I believe, limit time travel on a very strict and limited manner, if it is allowed at all! Why would a group of seemingly inteligent people risk changing there present on the desire to see themselves in the past?

While entertaining, your story is bogus.

Chris Greycheck

February 2, 2001 11:09 am
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John,

I am certainly not uncomfortable in thinking that you are a fraud, although it would bring me (and others) great comfort if you could prove yourself.

You chose only to reply to my statement of the moral obligation to help others if you knew they were going to die, (but still not directly, as I was saying that if you knew someone who was going to be in a life-threatening situation, especially a family member or friend, it’s your duty to get them out of it…I was not talking about people who knew of their imminent deaths…and your 1941 example was not clear…

Yet you didn’t bother to reply to me when I said that you were being redundant when you say that your wish is to get others to believe that time travel is a possibility. Again, I will say, that the whole premise of this board is based on the paranormal, and if anything, most of us *already* believe that time travel is a possibility, ncluding myself…so your many posts on this board are on the basis of redundancy.

Again I will ask: Tell us something that is morally neutral, like a near-future event in Hollywood or politics…something…come on, I am giving you chance after chance, I want to beleive…

I am trying to be objective about this, but as you continually evade and dodge the real questions, you become less and less credible.

Craig Cuthbert

February 2, 2001 11:00 am
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John –

Can you give us some brief personal stories of your past? For instance, in relation to history what were some of your growing up sagas?

Can you tell us how China and Africa make their way into the 21st Century?

Jazz -Swing -BeBop -R&B -Rock ‘n Roll -Disco -Rap/HipHop – ….what comes next???

Do Crop Circles play a part in labeling these micromeasurements in time of gravity/energy?

James R.Quayle III

February 2, 2001 10:59 am
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Thank you for your timely reply,and i feel if i am not someone you recognize as a future name known then how about
you let me know if Newport Beach is a bad place to be in case of a war?Nuked area?Probably,i bet.What area is a good one to be in when the nukes fall?Have you met any other time travelers besides yourself?Have you ever had an alien encounter?Because i have had some very interesting meetings with ET’s.agentq3Thank you again for your time john titor

John Titor

February 2, 2001 10:53 am
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Perhaps it would be better if you just considered me a fraud. I really don’t have a problem with that. If that were the case, could we then have discussions that you were comfortable with?

((Why not? What the hell is wrong with you? If I knew someone was going to be in a situation where they may die, and there was a chance I could stop it, I have the moral obligation to do something about it.))

I can think of a couple of examples.

If the Egyptians knew the Red Sea was going to drown them, do you think they would have pursued Moses?

If you could go back in time to 1941 and tell the radar operators to take a second look at the radar screen on December 7th, would you? Before you say yes and accept that parade in your honor down main street, perhaps you should go forward in time and see if the U.S still had the motivation to make the A-bomb before Hitler did.

Chris Greycheck

February 2, 2001 10:26 am
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John,

As I read more and more of your posts, I am admittedly intrigued, but increasingly annoyed by your insistance.

OK, fine, there are ethical issues, relating to lotto numbers and gambling, so tell us something like how many will be found dead in the earthquake in India. Tell us
something that happens in politics on a national level.
Surely you can tell us *something* that has a neutral moral effect on society.

You stated:

“Although I do have personal reasons for being here and speaking with you, the most I could hope for is that you recognize the possibility of time travel as a reality”

Tell us something we don’t know!! Look at what message board you are on!! How redundant can one be? Of course it’s not unreasonable that most of us on here certainly think that time travel is a possibility!!..come on…

“2. I will not disclose any detailed information that would allow someone to avoid death by probability. This means no earthquake or bomb information”

Why not? What the hell is wrong with you? If I knew someone was going to be in a situation where they may die, and there was a chance I could stop it, I have the moral obligation to do something about it.

John, it’s becoming clearer to me that you are simply a fraud…how sad indeed…you can still save yourself, but you better do it soon.

John Titor

February 2, 2001 10:09 am
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Yes, I age and my hair and nails grow at normal rates. Please keep in mind that gravity distortion does involve some dilation effects but “jumping” between worldlines are timelike trips, not spacelike trips. The air is about the same although I do smell and taste industrial odors here my parents cannot. The food in the future is grown and raised naturally inside the community structure. This is done primarily for safety reasons. I am amazed at the risks people here are willing to take with processed food. All of the food I eat here is grown and prepared by myself or my family. Unfortunately, I do not know if we are acquainted on my worldline. Yes, love is a challenge. What’s harder is knowing you could go back and correct a mistake but at the cost of the “you” on that worldline you want to live your life over again on.

The questions about the president and space travel are reasonable but now we come to a conflict between physics and ethics. First, the ethics:

I have seen a television program about a man who is able to speak with the dead. When I watch the show, I am more afraid about the possibility that what he is doing is real not weather or not he is doing it. Since I will be leaving this worldline in the coming year, I could easily tell you that the President lives or dies in the next four years. In fact, I could probably find some way to even charge you for it. When the day comes for my “prediction” to be realized it will either happen or not. If it does happen, then your ability to judge your environment is crippled by your acceptance of me as a “knower of all things” and gifted with the ability to tell the future. If I am wrong, then everything I have said that might possibly have made you think about your world in a different way is suddenly discredited. I do not want either. Although I do have personal reasons for being here and speaking with you, the most I could hope for is that you recognize the possibility of time travel as a reality. You are able to change your worldine for better or worse just as I am. Although this will make me a far less interesting time traveler, these are the rules I personally try to hold to:

1. I will not disclose any information that will cause someone to personally gain by its knowledge. This means no stock or sports tips.

2. I will not disclose any detailed information that would allow someone to avoid death by probability. This means no earthquake or bomb information.

3. I will not disclose any information that may compromise any future actions by individual people or threaten their family and well-being. I will not disclose names or events associated with individuals.

Now for the physics: The grandfather paradox is impossible. In fact, all paradox is impossible. The Everett-Wheeler-Graham or multiple world theory is correct. All possible quantum states, events, possibilities and outcomes are real, eventual and occurring. The chances of everything happening someplace at sometime in the superverse is 100%. (For all you scientists out there, if Schrodinger’s cat had a time machine, he might not be in the box at all.)

Therefore, there is a worldline where you are alive and another worldline where you have gone back in time to kill your relative and the you on the new worldline won’t be born but “you” the killer is still running around there. Differences between worldlines are measured from the perspective of the time traveler in terms of divergence percentage. The higher the divergence, the more “un-like” your destination worldline looks like compared to your worldline of origin.

Therefore, any “prediction” I might make has a slight chance of being incorrect anyway and you now have the ability to act on it based on what I’ve said. Can you stop the war before it gets here? Sure. Will you do it? Probably not.

As far as space travel goes… no, we are not on Mars yet but we’re trying very hard so we can avoid another “Hell’s Kitchen” outcome from an overpopulated Earth

Chris Greycheck

February 2, 2001 9:42 am
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OK, this John Titor guy obviously is really into science fiction, a scientist, or is actually a TT’er.

Trust me, I would *really* love to believe that you are from the future. So as Mike suggested, instead of going on about fantastic time machine components and WW3, why not actually gain some credibility by correctly telling NEAR future events? Indeed, you are very convincing with your stories of what you claim will be, but unless you actually *prove* who you claim to be, quit wasting our time…you may as well be beating your head against the wall.

Although, if you consistently tell of near-future events, you will rightly gain all our respect, and we will be hanging off your every word…

As I said, I want to beleive, but don’t give us the typical “I don’t need to prove myself, I am not here to do that” Well you should be!…Why come on here and spend all that time with your stories, if everyone discounts you as a crackpot. If you want us to actually *listen* to you, then prove yourself! I know that the *first* thing that I would do if I claimed to be a time traveller, is *consistently* tell of *near*-future events…whether it’s politics or entertainment…just give us *anything* that we can all relate to…

I don’t mean to sound cynical and negative, but if you want us to beleive you, then just do what I suggest, and quit being so evasive.

Thanks.

[Edited by Chris Greycheck on 02-02-2001 at 10:07 AM]

Mel Reckling

February 2, 2001 7:52 am
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John,
I know sports questions are not good for you, so how about a couple of other questions? Does GW survive his presidency or is there an attempt on his life? That should be historically documented. Do the current inhabitants of this here planet travel to Mars between now and 2036? If that is the case when does that happen? n,

James R.Quayle III

February 2, 2001 6:49 am
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Greetings TT Titor,I have not been on this site in a long while,I am acquantinces with Al Bielek,and I have been in close quarters with beings not human and not from this place or time.The Humans who talk with you on this post have not asked you yet how you feel about your travels?How has it effected you emotionally,Do you age ?Does the hair grow on your face faster,do your nails grow quicker,Does the air taste different in different time periods?How is the food in the future,Have you tried to eat things not found in your time?Do you know me in the future?I plan on living 120 years,so i am sure going to look for you later 35 years from now i will be 66,I was born in 1970.I have met a few other TT people(TimeTravel),I did not ask them about lotteries or sh1t like that(How petty)I like my time,but i see Traveling into Another Time and Space as too much for most humans,to think on different levels,to not lose oneself,to not fall in love or like with peoples from different times.That must be the hardest,to not be able to connect with others that would be traumatized by the info given by a TT person.Wether your from here nor there matters not, thanks for helping the ones from this Time think of what they are and where they may be heading.Agentq3 Blessed Be in your travels!

John Titor

February 2, 2001 6:34 am
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If you could change one thing about your government right now, what would it be?

The United States is still a representative republic in 2036 but it was touch and go for a while. After the war, the U.S. had divided into 5 general areas based on their economic and defensive strengths. Many people blamed the government organization for the war and the last Constitutional Congress was held in 2020 to officially scrap the Constitution and start over. Fortunately, this exercise in anger pointed out how hard it was to come up with anything better. It was decided the document wasn’t at fault. As a result, there have been a few small changes to the Constitution and the executive branch but you would easily recognize it. The average citizen is more educated about the Constitution and aware of the rights and responsibilities it gives them. Federal power has been decentralized and the focus of daily politics is in the state senates. Federal law has also been streamlined but much harder to change or make additions to.

The people who sign my paycheck told me why we needed a 5100 and sent me off to get one. I was not in a position to make alternate suggestions. As I recall, isn’t the Cray a rather large system? We need something portable. The 5100 isn’t required for its reliability, its needed to translate between APL, UNIX and a few obscure IBM mainframe languages.

The fishing is great and you’re more than welcome to join us but the “me” here is only three. I’ll have to tell him your coming.

Kevin Spooner

February 2, 2001 4:03 am
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And I just loved wasting my time looking at how to be informed about cannibis… wanna try again? Perhaps check the link?

John Tooker

February 2, 2001 2:24 am
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Hey,
You’re a traveller too? Have you ever interacted with any of the pre 1983 staff, at Montauk? If so, you may have met me. When I was working there, I was a R&D assistant to Dr. Von Neumann, and was known as Daniel John Waters, and had a rank of Lt. Col., in the Psi Corps.
I looked exactly like Jack Parsons, in that incarnation, and was in on the “rebellion” that Al Bielek, Preston Nichols, et al were on, and was working with Duncan Cameron on the specific night everything went down.

John

John Tooker

February 2, 2001 2:21 am
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Hey,
You’re a traveller too? Have you ever interacted with any of the pre 1983 staff, at Montauk? If so, you may have met me. When I was working there, I was a R&D assistant to Dr. Von Neumann, and was known as Daniel John Waters, and had a rank of Lt. Col., in the Psi Corps.
I looked exactly like Jack Parsons, in that incarnation, and was in on the “rebellion” that Al Bielek, Preston Nichols, et al were on, and was working with Duncan Cameron on the specific night everything went down.
I discovered this largely via recovered memories, and psychical research, but my website, and story, can be read at http://members.tripod.com/~jrtooker/index-2.html, but I have no hard evidence that this person existed. Which is why I’m trying to contact other travellers.
BTW, this isn’t my original timeline, as I believe that I jumped timelines, not long after doing some work with Steve Gibbs, on his trip up to Calgary, Canada.
John