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Though her thoughts on the subject might be interesting, the only involvement that Zeshua could possibly have is if she states that ywo years ago she didn’t give Sue permission to post the photos. If she doesn’t state that then the rest is not her concern. The final release of the photos was up to Sue’s group and is an internal matter for them.

And, of course, there’s the issue of the copyrighted photos. Zeshua has no right to claim “foul” regarding the release of those photos. They’re already on the Internet…which is where Zeshua appropriated them.

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nitescott,

Strange, yes? But Dan is the only person that I can recall who referred to me as “old friend” or “old pal” even on the phone, in PM and emails, who would play a female part on occassion and also referrs to Pamela and me, at times, as P & M.

Am I absolutely sold on this idea? No. I haven’t dug any deeper that just below the surface. Though the Zeshua saga has been around for a couple of years it has never really grabbed my attention. For whatever reason I’ve simply found it to be boring, though I haven’t spent much time reading the posts.

Dan is a bit more complex than a surface reading of his posts might suggest. Sometimes he’s very lucid. Sometimes he’s…well…a bit less than lucid. But that’s the person who posts. The IRL person is much different than the poster.

But Zeshua uses The Cloak anonymous proxy so we don’t know where she’s posting from.

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Yes, yes yes. That of course would seem to be the obvious and reasonable conclusion, until you hear Zeshua’s take, which puts a new and interesting twist on the whole story, at least IMO.

  • Peter

Edit: Ok, so Zeshua has given me the go-ahead to share the emails mentioned above. One I have with me right now and can post herein, but the other is in my computer at home and will have to wait until later tonight for me to post here.

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On 7/24/2007 at 11:01 AM, Zeshua Alpha wrote:

Peter,

The events transpiring in your time I have known about for quite a while. It was not unexpected, and therefore, not beyond a measure of my control. The release of the pictures is specifically what had brought me to this point in time. Hopefully now you understand the reason for half truths and deceits. I would like to explain the course of events as I understand them, so that you might have a better perspective as well.

After originally speaking of the pictures, I setup a sort of booby trap in which the one who would release the pictures would effectively hang themselves with their own rope. I distributed the pictures and watched as they appeared, this all happens rather quickly from my perspective. I had traced the time of a major breach and the origin and determined it to be from within the group. Therefore, of course you could not expect to receive an actual picture of the future, anything that could be construed as truly being from the future, or any knowledge of the future.

It was a test that certain individuals failed at, and quite miserably I might add. On more than one occasion I’d hinted to the persons of interest, and yet their word was not as strong as they had indicated.

It is always up to you my friend, to make your own choices, and stand by them. Please do not be concerned for my safety, as the pictures now floating about the Internet are by no means going to affect me personally. You might say that I used the group, but I prefer to think of it as a test of honor.

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I responded :

There was a vote that led up to all this. I;m not sure how much of this you know, so I’ll review. The question of whether or not to release the photos was put to a vote among the six members of the group. X, Y, and Z originally voted no, while A, B, and C voted yes. At that time it was decided that the vote was a draw, so we shouldn’t release the photos. Then a day or two later, due apparently to some stimuli I didn’t witness, X changed her mind and decided to post the photos.
So although Y didn’t raise the fuss I did, he was also against it.

I will ask again, though – when you gave us the okay to release stuff in 2005, saying “The Choice of whether, when, how, to share with others what I have shared with you, I leave to you. The Veil of Secrecy has come down, the Choice is Yours my friends”, how did that not make the release of the photos also permissible? It seems from those words that you released us from our promise to keep the photos secret, and yet now you are acting as if that promise was still in effect.

Please explain.

Zeshua replied:

I once had a Professor who said at the beginning of term, if any one of you should be able to solve the equation that I use to grade on a curve, without any help from myself, you shall receive a passing mark equivalent to less than 90 percent. Essentially what a “B”. This equation, if solved, would also mean that person was not required to appear at the lecture. I might also add, this was a very early morning class, one that most of us especially dreaded.

Peter my friend, can you tell me why I solved the equation, and still received an “A”? It is because I still went to lecture.

I was no longer required to, no longer needed to, My GPA was never going to be a 4 point due to a disagreement with a professor in another class during my sophomore year. I needed to know, not hope, who I could trust. If you remember, I quite clearly stated the supposed “Danger” that releasing the pictures would have caused. Then later I contradicted myself with the statement that All Information could be released. Essentially, leaving the ethical dilemma in each of your hands.

I’ve also been in contact with Y, as I knew he also opposed the decision.

I hope that this helps you. Please do not think of what I have done as deceitful. I prefer to think of it as a true measure of ethical integrity. For the information I wish to share with you will far exceed the worth of any supposed “Pictures from the Future”.

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Zeshua writes Peter from 2025:

Zeshua writes Sosuemetoo in 2027:

Zeshua, evidently someone cut that rope that I hung myself with. Would you care to clarify?

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Zeshua, you have got another problem. See, I have a good friend who is a Cambridge Alumni. You wrote:

My friend states that GPA’s are not used in the UK… or at Cambridge. Further, “you are assessed in your final dissertation and exam, there are no measures prior to that, no GPA’s to count, no Merits to collect, 3,4 or 5 years of study, exams and a dissertation, that’s it.”

I may have hung myself, but you seem to be using a very large shovel to bury yourself.

What say you, Zeshua???

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I feel Sue IS a trustworthy person. Maybe it is Zeshua that is not.
I have known Sue for a while and she is an honest person.
We have shared several things with each other openly and honestly with trust.

Zeshua sent me a PM with supposedly proof that she was a time traveler
but the name was not right so to me what was the point? It didn’t prove anything.
Which I admit has caused me to really lose interest further.

I usually give people the benefit of the doubt as well at first, But like Darby,
I have never really found much interest in Zeshuas story.

I am a little angry with her because I really don’t like the way she is treating
people. Using people for your own personal gain is not honorable.
Deceiving people and admitting it and trying to justify it is not honorable either.

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Sue,

As I said before, I have no problem with your releasing the photos. Some were already on the Internet thus they were already “released”.

Had Zeshua made her comments, in private with Peter for instance, before the release then her argument would have a bit more credibility. Anyone can make Zeshua’s argument and complaint after the fact. Complaining after the fact is self-serving. There is no possible opportunity to test the sincerity of her commentary.

The fact remains that she was quite a bit less than honest in her assertion that the photos were from “the future”. Telling a lie is not a valid strategy for making a later argument that “someone else” violated an ethical standard. If we have a contract to act ethically and in the initial phase of setting up the contractual agreement one party begins the process by violating the agreed upon ethical standard the contract is null and void. One party can’t have it both ways - otherwise it isn’t a “contract”. That situation is called a scam.

She lied to you and she was caught in the lie. The only trap that she set was for herself. She set herself up in a perjury trap. Having been caught in one lie seriously taints her credibility.

As an aside, I’ve continued to ponder just who Zeshua might be. Though her story is still a bore for me, her references to me throughout her story as an “old friend” has caused me to review PM’s, emails, member registration dates and who was posting at the time that she appeared. I’m specifically reviewing PM’s and emails from online TT forum people who wrote to me during that time asking for advice on how to pull off a hoax. I’ve consistently refused to assist them in any form. I also tell them that I won’t disclose the particulars of our conversations. I just advise them that it’s not a good idea for a regular member to intentionally lie to their online friends even if the object is to see if they can pull it off as an object lession (which has been the general stated reason behind the plans).

If I come up with a viable candidate(s) who has asked me for help in the past I’ll ask them directly if they are Zeshua and leave it up to them to fess up on the forum. I won’t disclose their “confession” simply because I was consistent in telling them beforehand that I wouldn’t disclose. In any case I really don’t plan to spent much time on this project. We get a new one every two weeks.

PS: Yes. I have receive dozens of PM’s and emails from people asking me to help them with posting a hoax TT saga. I’ve been consistent in telling them that I won’t assist them.

It’s obvious that Zeshua has more than one handle here and probably elsewhere. Is it Dan? Probably not - but the references that Zeshua made are interesting. Is it Javier? He also tended to use “old friend” when posting directly to members. Probably not. I say probably not because neither Dan nor Javier ever suggested, directly or indirectly, that they would engage in posing a hoax and over the years I’ve had the opportunity to converse with both of them off the boards on many occassions. I’m not perfect but I think that if they had any such ideas it would have come out somewhere in our conversations.

PPS: I threw Javier’s name into the fray not to “out” him but to give a heads up to anyone who might ask. A search here for “old friend” includes both Dan and Javier’s posts. Javier went through quite enough last year with the suggestion that he was Titor, Chronohistorian and just about every other hoax TT’er who had more than two pages of posts on his/her thread.

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No. That would qualify him as (a), gullible. And I don’t buy that. I bet if you queried Peter about any other number of things that are silly to believe without real evidence, he would dismiss them. Here, let me show you what I am getting at with an example performed by Derren Brown:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derren_Brown#Messiah

The person behind Zeshua has chosen the perfect medium and means (internet and anonymous proxy) to avoid any form of real evidence to prove what she says is true. The obvious motive is to engender intrigue so as to gain attention to the Zeshua story. Peter, moreso than any other person from “Group Zeshua”, acts as the active advertiser. He constantly offers suggestive analysis geared to get people to continue to “give Zeshua the benefit of the doubt”. I made a reference to Santa Claus, and it was pertinent. There is the same lack of evidence for Santa Claus, but why is Peter not out on all sorts of forums imploring people to “Give the Santa Claus story the benefit of the doubt”? Look at the emotionally-charged and flowerly messages Zeshua sends to you. They read precisely like the tactics of someone who eagerly wishes to gain your confidence. We used to call these “Con Men”. And now that her cover is blown (and is has been before), she offers up some lame story where she was “testing people.” Peter may be gullible, but I am not gullible enough to believe that Peter would continue to “give the benefit of the doubt” to all these explanations that are clearly trying to save the Zeshua story unless he had a vested interest.

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Just one more thing Zeshua,:

FACT: You sent these pictures not only to our group, but to a member named Crosstika.

FACT: In May 2006, SnowFireWatches posts some hostile remarks on TPN. She was released from “the group” several months before. She threatened to post the pictures. She did not do so because she couldn’t figure out how to upload the pictures.

FACT: Crosstika cannot figure out what the big fuss is, he decides to try and post them. He ended up sending them to several other members (one being Risata).

FACT: A member of TPN posted those pictures. It was not a member of our group, nor was it a person you had sent pictures to.

FACT: You are a liar. You are a fraud. You are a stalker.

FACT: Once your true identity is known, it will be posted on the forum that Cary, NiteScott and I moderate. TRUST ME.

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Indy,

Good call.

What makes Zeshua’s comments especially self-serving is that Peter offered up her defense for her before she offered it up to him.

But it appears that Peter’s gone back through his recent posts and deleted the text. I guess that it’s a good thing that I’m not a Mod or Admin here. I usually ban members who get involved in a thread, make posts, get a lot of responses and then erase their posts thus making the context of the thread nonsense to anyone who reads it several weeks later. (In fact at Anomalies we limited members’ abilityto edit posts one hour after they are finalized because one member went through his/her posts and deleted over 125 in one night.)

Peter, why did you erase your posts between July 23rd and July 25th - posts that are referenced in several member’s responses? Especially the post where it was you who offered the defense that Zeshua was just testing Sue with the photos? By erasing that post you removed evidence that supports the self-serving aspect of the issue. The evidence indicated that Zeshua read your post, took your lead, and offered up the defense that you suggested…it was a test.

This is strikingly odd behavior coming from the person who first cried foul by suggesting that Sue involved herself in unethical behavior. How unethical is your action in erasing the posts?

You’ve been oddly protective of Zeshua. There’s no chance that you know who Zeshua is, is there? A person that I’m somewhat familiar with? Stopped posting a few weeks before Zeshua arrived after seven months of almost daily posting.

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OK guy’s you need them posted here as well.

The pictures given to us by Zeshua: Supposedly from 2025/2026!!!

#1: A look out her friend’s flat. ( what a joke!)

#2: Zeshua and her team

#3: Cambridge University

#4: Cambridge University

#5: Cambridge University

OK now let it rip!

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HMMM…That’s some weird window glass they have in the future makes everything outside the window look kinda like a fake artists painting.

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I must confess to having been initially impressed with the Zeshua tale as it was technically competent in its execution whilst being sufficiently amorphous in its delivery. The whole introduction gifted us with a fairly robust plot that had opportunity and motive for some to fill in the detail, making Zeshua (Zeshui for a plural, or group moniker?) the editor in chief of an evolving tale that was vicariously written by its audience.

The only problem with such tales of fantasy is that they can have an integrity against their own internal logic, as many novels do, but are doomed to failure when they become anchored in the real world where we can test the logic against our own experiences and environment. Such has been the case here. What you should never do with such flights of fantasy is fill in the details for the reader as that is where the logic is in danger of unravelling… and it has, bigtime. It was sustaining itself when the reader wrote the tale by filling in the details, but the Zeshui have insisted in fiddling with a working strategem and it has bit them on the arse.

Silence now from the Zeshui will be damning, further commentary will simply dig a bigger hole for their tale. Where will they jump, who will they pm involuted justification and tortuous twists to the plot to now, what excusues will they make?

Who cares, they are hoist by their own petard.

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Re: futuristic photo #1, Pamela.

I guess my memory is failing. I seem to recall that Zeshua talked about living on " small game."
What kind of small game could you find in that futuristic setting? Pigeons? Rats?

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The only reason she didn’t want the pictures released is because in a larger group
there was bound to be someone with the skills to find it online.

My wish is that a real time traveler track her down and find her and kick her
in the backside for deceiving, manipulating and hurting other people while calling them friends.

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Maybe the “small game” she was talking about was the small game she is playing here on the board.

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You right. You’s 'sactly right. )

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Ouch!

Until you can open your mind to all possibilities, you will never truly be free.<<<<<

Oh, Zeshua, the mind was open before the decision was made to exclude all the possibilities. First a single person can not even think of all the possibilities and second if they could think of all the possibilities it would take more than the Age of the Universe to even think of all of the possibilities. Time limits the amount of possibilities that can be thought of. First, one would have to have access to all “Times”, Past, Present, Future, or the possibilities are limited to begin with. One does not want the brain and mind to fall out, so to speak, and one does not want to squish and squash the brain into a very narrow limited concept either. The Freedom of Choice decided that was chosen in many people before he/she/spacealien even thought that he/she/spacealien had done anything, which also is personal according to one’s experiences in life, what the person has learned, and life’s experiences of the person throughout a brief period of time which is perception and awareness and why some people gloss over what it is that they are even doing is also tied into with the subconsciousness and unconsciousness to already had made the decision or choice before stating that the person was now thinking of all the possibilities. This is learned first of all in computer programming because with lines of code, one thinks at first the program will work, and then the person finds out that they were not even thinking at all in the first place. Then the lines of programming code get changed and lines of code added because at every step of the way, all the lines of code had to be included to make the program work within the specifications that the documents (or homework) in these cases provoked. This limits the possibilities in the first place, because only the personal experiences play into the first process of the non-thinking or later real thinking that any person can do.

It is impossible to know everything, and that is where all debates end. One person is declared a winner seemingly for being more clever than the other person but still because all possibilites were not added into the debate in the first place and the time was limited, only a certain set of possibilites could be attempted and the expected results achieved anyway.

When examined in detail it is simply amazing how many people actually think (that exist right now on this Planet) and end up as he/she/spacealien is talking at the time – only about his/her/spacealien’s own time travelling and future thoughts that always lead to some type of control coming out of that person. Persuasion is also an art to also sell the idea, but when enough negativity gets in the way of any positivity, then all the possibilities for the future just became negative, but the answer is always given as “there was another set of possibilities that could be tried” type of answer. This answer in the end only ends up being “One Possibility” (that of the person doing the talking at the time and probably demanding also) so the entire scope of the Experience led to only one answer. Then another person stated that there may be no right or wrong answers, and with that the person merely was stating that withever was the crude version of language skills that came out of the first person to lead to the other set of possibilties that ended up in the discussion only to his/her/spacealien’s own personal feelings about the debate. In the end, this mass consciousness because it also dragged or sold other people became the thought process that took over the entire future thought process.

An example: We (whomever ‘we’ is) are not going to make anything out of Iraq, so we should get out of Iraq (and not communicated – because it will take too long to convince them to all live together or they do not get it with their thinking or we all will be more in debt and we all should think of the children and the future) which actually led to a future that gave a negative set of possibilities that in the end more than likely made the future worse, but as long as that particular set of people were not affected then that lack of ethics was okay.

Or:
A person should look first at where they are stepping because if not looking a person might have fallen off of the cliff and never saw the edge approaching because that person was too busy being self-rightous in the first place.

The Thinking at first did not include that thought in the first place because the person did not admit to his/her/spacealien’s own person that the thinking had been done in the first place without (I guess) conscious effort on his/her/spacealien’s part. It was automatic because of habit. The process was assumed. Same way with computer programming. The person assumed that he/she/spacealien was thinking in the first place, but later found out that really that person was not really thinking of all the possibilities, which is a reaction. All of this led to a series or set of possibilities that could not begin to be defined because again:

To me, if everyone had to think of all the possibilities that could, should, would be then there is that limited lifespan of the person that ends the debate in the first place. So, I would venture to say that with limited thinking there can be only limited Freedom. (And Freedom can only be limited anyway leaving all possibilities to dissolve because it was impossible in the first place to think of all the possibilities. Better to dance to a tune or song then deny that any thinking was taken place in the first place which made the entire future a balancing Act that may lead to one dropping off of the so-called imaginary cliff.

Then a person could only type so much and communicate so much anyway.