"The future ain't what it used to be."

Can Major Real World Events Occur Outside of Light Cones?

G

Guest

Hi:

Is it possible for a major real world event (i.e., the 9/11 fiasco) to occur outside of a light cone (i.e., to be closer to the x-axis than the t-axis in a spacetime diagram)? Thanks!
 
RTT,

An event might take place in the "elsewhere" region of your light cone. But "getting there" (receiving information from the event) necessitates "spacelike" travel on your part.

In the metric ds^2 = c^2 * dt^2 - x^2 - y^2 - z^2 "ds" (change in location) is negative yet your velocity greater than "c"...i.e., your traveling faster than the speed of light but going nowhere (actually "elsewhere").
 
This is not a pristene question, as there was a photograph of an O-part, by an oriential film crew, as posted of the 9-11 side view of the WTC towers, as posted on the Art Bell web site.

So this event as far as near real space-time physics, or superluminal imagined realms, may not be a clear and precise series of supposition formats?

In other words, Darby can only make near trajectories, via physical deductives, as the crime sceane, has knowing be compremised before hand.

This is known by two photos shown on Art Bell, out of time and oblate near moving near realtive realms.

Thank you for the equations Darby.
 
>RTT,
>
>An event might take place in
>the "elsewhere" region of your
>light cone. But "getting
>there" (receiving information from the
>event) necessitates "spacelike" travel
>on your part.
>
>In the metric ds^2 = c^2
>* dt^2 - x^2 -
>y^2 - z^2 "ds" (change
>in location) is negative yet
>your velocity greater than "c"...i.e.,
>your traveling faster than the
>speed of light but going
>nowhere (actually "elsewhere").

Hi:

First of all, thanks to Darby for the reminder that information should be required to connect two causally linked events in a light cone.

However, consider the following scenario involving JFK?In his book TIME: A TRAVELER?S GUIDE, Clifford Pickover has a 2-D spacetime diagram where two events (represented by two points) are below the 45-degree photon world line but above the horizontal x-axis representing space. The two events are:

(1) Kennedy becomes president
(2) Oswald shoots Kennedy

The two events are joined by an ultraluminal particle world line. He uses all this and more to raise the question of whether President Kennedy could be assassinated BEFORE he is elected President?

Anyway, in this case there doesn?t seem to be a causal link or information flow suggested between these two events in the diagram. Although there is spacelike travel assumed between these two events in the form of the ultraluminal particle, in theory it seems relatively easy to rationalize a causal link between these two events?

Premise 1: Kennedy becomes President.
Premise 2: Oswald doesn?t like Kennedy.
Premise 3: Oswald eventually shoots anyone he doesn?t
like.

Conclusion: Oswald shoots Kennedy.

Forgive me if the setup of the formal logic is slightly incorrect , but you probably get the idea. Isn?t it wrong to place two earthly events such as these in the elsewhere if they could easily be rationalized to be causally linked, even if the spacetime diagram involving them doesn?t explicitly make a causal connection? Any help or constructive criticism would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 
RTT,

No reason to forgive you - the scenario set-up was crystal clear as stated.

From your perspective within your light cone (as a function of a Lorentz Transformation) the other two events (Kennedy Becomes President and Oswald Shoots Kennedy)are not reachable by you. Can Oswald still assassinate Kennedy? Yes. If they co-exist within the same light cone such that timelike communication is possible.

I personally don't buy into Everett's interpretation of MWI but the lightcones that can theoretically exist in the "elsewhere" region can be seen to represent those "many worlds".
 
Hi guys,

Off the subject here, Have you heard about the new DNA bullet the millitary is working on?

Well, They have made a bullet with Usamas DNA in it and it is designed to track him down like a heat seeking missel!

Now supose this technology was some how brought back in time by a Time Traveler to Oswald or someone else? I heard some controversey and something to the fact about the Kennedy assasination as there was a confusion of bullets coming from other directions which appeared to go around his head.

Just some of my thoughts, but one has to wonder?


CAT...
 
So let me see if I got this straight. We have 2 people; one of them hates the other, and is intent on assassinating him?

So he eventually will.

And being present on the date the assignation is to take place, being there at the precise time and place, allows him to get this done. Any other time or place, it would not happen?

Somehow this time is locked, and has always been set-aside for this one moment. It could be considered as the one and only chance he has.

On 9/11, terrorists choose that day to hijack 3 planes, and send them through the twin towers.

Was that day also set-aside for this event where 2 forces, the terrorists, and the Americans, would meet for a long and conflicting engagement?

So now let us suppose I am given a choice. I am late for work one day, and am still in bed contemplating what I should do. My presence at my work, as I am sure everyone else is too, is important. I have 3 choices then, and I decide on only one, my intention is always the same though, which you won’t know till I make my decision.

I can either; a) to go work, and apologize for being late and make up for it later, b) call in sick, and hang out all day at home playing video games, or c) stay in bed and go to work way later.

Now I may not completely understand scientific formula and it’s basis, (not my expertise, the TTA makes up for it in other ways though
happy.gif
) but my point is; is that whatever I decide would reflect the entire outcome of my day to everyone and my self. It will affect everything that has or would have a connection with me, and make it into a major event. As is everything else we say or do on these forums and in society will.

So in conclusion, aren’t all actions and decisions major? Do they not amount to the inevitable end of our human destiny?

How would you then be able to distinguish which are the major events? If our daily existence and movements help shape the flow of society into what it is, and what it will become?

-TTA
 
RE: Can Major; Yellow saves TTA\'s life.

As the Great White circled, within the storm swept sea, the intent of the thirty foot fish, was to take now helpless TTA and devour him, with one swift finnal bite

Deep blue waves pushed out of the way, by the masive nose of the intruding shark, gave clue to rows of razor seariated sharp teeth.The distance was now gradually closeing by the slate gray colored denizen.

TTA's mouth now parched by sea water, cried for fresh drinking water, as he desperatly clung to ropes at the side of the fishing boat. The waves ever increasing, buffeting within their inensity, as the storm rose to it creshendo.

TTA tilted back his head to those who knew and loved him on the wooden deck of the Stellar Marie, crying a last fairwell.
"Tell all my friends and relatives, that I love them and to that special one, I will always care for you darling"!

The White now ten feet from TTA's dangeling legs, intent on dismemeberment, the gapping mouth now opened, as to devour what little pride that TTA had, as he waited for fate to consme him.

Then as if in a flash a spectre sailed from the deck of the Marie, spashing inbetween the white and TTA, with powerful intent and determinate speed.

High in the air, the bannana was raise, frozen to a solid fixtured state, by total imercement within liquid nitrogen.

DOWN!, DOWN! splash came the stroke from the sinued armed holding the frozen bannana, a blaze of yellow, to fast for the human eye to observe without blurring.
Down' onto the nose of the giant squalis, the water turning both yellow and red with the definace of one friend for another.

After blows battered the nose and turned away the Great White, Yellow Man swam over to TTA, so gentily cradeling him within his arms.

"I HAVE HIM NOW, I HAVE TTA, AND HE'S SAFE"! Shoutted the masked spectre, as the giant dark shape was now only a point in the distance.

Yellowman placeing his lips very closely to TTA's ear, wispered the magic words.

"My best bud, TTA, the Oswald hateing Kennedy for personal reasons, is only a sucking ruse, in order to gather a fine fellow such as you in"!

Remember; "FREADOM FOR CUBA", THE EXECUTIVE ORDER 26 PLACED OVER THE OPERATION OF THE CIA, AS WELL AS OTHER CONNECTIONS THAT KENNEDY HAD TRAMPLED UPON"?

TTA now supprised opens his eyes and repiles "Yes' I think I see the light, this was a conspiracy!

Oh I'm so glad that you had saved me!!!

Nothing to it, muttered Yellow Man intent on suddenly disappearance, in a cloud of yellow bannana peels.

In other words, the greater boss of John F. Kennedy's demise, must have been grander working, that were impenged upon by Kennedy himself, not so much Oswald's hatered for Kennedy by himself?

By the way TTA, I wanted to know this coming Saturday night, can I double with you and your girl?

TTA:Your still dateing that female Orangatang?

Yellow man;Yes'.... ahhh" I love her very much and you know that, so what's the problem"?

TTA;Well your not brining that ape in my car, dressed up in a Piere Cardan Dress.

If my ex-homies here that I had doubled with some crazy guy in a yellow outfit, who love giant apes, my rep is ruined?!
confused.gif
confused.gif
 
RE: Can Major; Yellow saves TTA\'s life.

Creedo, you said:
<<As the Great White circled, within the storm swept sea, the intent of the thirty foot fish, was to take now helpless TTA and devour him, with one swift finnal bite>>

Yeah you wish
happy.gif
. But hey, can you make it any more obvious that your bitter cause I kicked your ass?

<<By the way TTA, I wanted to know this coming Saturday night, can I double with you and your girl?>>

I don't go out on Saturday nights. I like to stay home on the weekends and relax
happy.gif
.

<<TTA:Your still dateing that female Orangatang?>>

I don’t think I’d be mean enough to call Kathy that. But if that’s what you think she resembles, then that’s your business. Certainly not mine. You won’t catch me telling you who I think you should date
wink.gif
. Unless you ask for my opinion.

<<If my ex-homies here that I had doubled with some crazy guy in a yellow outfit, who love giant apes, my rep is ruined?!>>

Creedo, maybe I’m reading you wrong. But it sounds to me like your trying to come out to the TTA and say to him that you have a sick fetish for hairy, smelly animals. I know, I compared you to a smelly monkey ass once before, but you didn’t have to take it literal and fall in love with a giant ape
happy.gif
. I think your rep is ruined with whoever you double date with :p. I hope you have a nice time though, make sure your careful that the candle light don't burn up her fur
wink.gif
.

-TTA

P.S. Who uses the word homies anymore? That’s so 90’s
happy.gif
.
 
Javier,

Actually, RTT's question really doesn't involve time travel. On the light cone he's indicating events that might transpire in the regions that have been named, for lack of a better term, "elsewhere". Those regions lay neither in the present, past or future of the observer.

There's nothing in the math that precludes events which we might call "alternate realities" from occuring in those regions. However, because they aren't part of the observer's past, present or future he can't receive any information about what those events might be.

That's why I answered, "yes" to his question. An alternate Kennedy Assassination could happen in that region - in theory.

As I said, this scenario can be looked upon as being one solution of Everett's Many World's Interpretation (of Quantum Mechanics) or MWI. Though I answered in the affirmative to RTT's question I did so only because it's a logical conclusion based on that interpretation of QM. I, however, don't agree that that is the correct interpretation of QM or even a correct interpretation of Everett's MWI. (Pop-Sci tends to stretch Everett's MWI way beyond what he proposed.)
 
Hi:

I guess I kind of beat around the bush for my first few questions. Anyway, what REALLY confuses me is that earlier in Pickover's book, he says that the world line of an object (people included) can never tilt more than plus or minus 45 degrees from the vertical. And yet, in Pickover's diagram involving the two events (again, "Kennedy becomes President" and "Oswald shoots Kennedy"), an ultraluminal particle with a world line that tilts between 45 and 90 degrees from the vertical goes through the two events. Since Kennedy is involved in both events, that implies that Kennedy's world line tilts more than 45 degrees from the vertical, which seems to contradict Pickover's initial statement that the world line of an object can't tilt more than 45 degrees from the vertical. Maybe this contradiction could somehow be cirumvented if you took into account all of Kennedy's individual molecules, atoms, etc., which have dissipated from his body, but Pickover himself has casually used world lines to represent full people throughout his book. Any help resolving this mess would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 
Darby,
<<Actually, RTT's question really doesn't involve time travel.>>

Niether did my explanation.

<<On the light cone he's indicating events that might transpire in the regions that have been named, for lack of a better term, "elsewhere". Those regions lay neither in the present, past or future of the observer.>>

Exactly. And if you remember, I said: *…my intention is always the same though, which you won’t know till I make my decision.*

You don’t know what’s “named” until it happens, and the options that you cannot get are locked away in the persons mind.

<<There's nothing in the math that precludes events which we might call "alternate realities" from occuring in those regions. However, because they aren't part of the observer's past, present or future he can't receive any information about what those events might be.>>

Not knowing what the alternatives were is completely up to the person who made the decision, not the observer. All you can do is postulate.

<<That's why I answered, "yes" to his question. An alternate Kennedy Assassination could happen in that region - in theory.>>

That region? But it’s elsewhere? So which is it? It eventually happens some place else?

Someone had the intent to kill President Regan in a specific region almost 20 years ago, but failed. How does this logic explain that Kennedy’s assignation is sure to succeed regardless in some other region? While Regan’s can’t?

What if no body killed Kennedy?

<<As I said, this scenario can be looked upon as being one solution of Everett's Many World's Interpretation (of Quantum Mechanics) or MWI.>>

Sure, but how about just putting it in simple English, and define your terms
happy.gif
. It’s kinda confusing when you say region is elsewhere. So where are you actually placing these events at, any time surrounding the event that we know or what? Shouldn’t you say, anytime in any given place, then?

Just thought I simplify things for the average Joe’s like myself
wink.gif
.

-TTA
 
<font size="1" color="#FF0000">LAST EDITED ON 21-Jun-02 AT 01:15AM (EDT)</font>

Javier,

Great question re. "Elsewhere".

I didn't coin the term. That's how the regions between 225 degrees and 315 degrees on the left and 135 degrees and 45 degrees on the right side of light cones are termed by physicists who draw light cones.

To get to those regions of the light cone one would have to tavel at a velocity greater than light speed. The boundary regions of 315 degrees and 45 degrees are the null geodesic paths followed by photons traveling at "c". Because you can't outrace a photon you can't get to the area named "elsewhere".
 
<font size="1" color="#FF0000">LAST EDITED ON 21-Jun-02 AT 01:09AM (EDT)</font>

RTT,

So that there is no confusion I'll reiterate and expand:

Yes - Kennedy and Oswald can interact in an area outside the past, present or future areas of my light cone (elsewhere).

(Big) however - both Kennedy and Oswald have light cones associated with themselves. Each of them has a past, present and future. They can interact if (and only if) their light cones intersect in non-"elsewhere" areas. That is, if Kennedy exists in the "elsewhere" region of Oswald's light cone there can be on interaction between them. (i.e. Kennedy is physically so far distant from Oswald that he would have to travel at super-luminal velocity to arrive at Kennedy's location before one or both of them dies or the universe collapses.)
 
><font size="1" color="#FF0000">LAST EDITED ON 21-Jun-02
>AT 01:09 AM (EDT)</font>
>
>RTT,
>
>So that there is no confusion
>I'll reiterate and expand:
>
>Yes - Kennedy and Oswald can
>interact in an area outside
>the past, present or future
>areas of my light cone
>(elsewhere).
>
>(Big) however - both Kennedy and
>Oswald have light cones associated
>with themselves. Each of
>them has a past, present
>and future. They can
>interact if (and only if)
>their light cones intersect in
>non-"elsewhere" areas. That is,
>if Kennedy exists in the
>"elsewhere" region of Oswald's light
>cone there can be on
>interaction between them. (i.e. Kennedy
>is physically so far distant
>from Oswald that he would
>have to travel at super-luminal
>velocity to arrive at Kennedy's
>location before one or both
>of them dies or the
>universe collapses.)

You said IF Kennedy exists in the "elsewhere" region of Oswald's light cone there can be interaction between them? I'm confused! Thanks in advance for any enlightenment!
 
Well, the elsewhere is that region where no information has been received from, -- yet!
It lies outside of the time needed to receive the information!
One can postulate that all 'probabilites' may, and I repeat, may -- indeed be thought of -- as possible.
The only probabilites that come into focus for anyone are the probabilites that happen, and I repeat, that have happened!
So, when Pres. Kennedy was shot and killed, that probability become the dominant probability out of a sea of all probabilities!
When Pres. Reagan was shot and not killed, the same thing also happened.
Just as with the terrorists -- all probabilites may/can happen -- since they said that they would use any means!
Its up to the rest of the people to make sure that the probability of them suceeding -- does not happen.
The information now has come into the light cone from the elsewhere!
 
RTT,

Arrrugh...I said "there can be on interaction"...a typo "on". It should read, "there can be no interaction". Now that was a really great time to have a typo...right at the most important word in the sentence. Sorry about that. I usually proof-read a bit more closely before posting.
 
Dearest Darby and gentilmen engauged in inteligent discussion on time travel.

I'm sorry to say, that multiple events occur all of the time in the cosmiverse, only on differing levels of frequency.

However this is measured at one these happenings are not secularized to only one reality, nor is communications between these succinct happenings.

What I think in laffable within this conversation, is that Ozwald did it all, when they have side view photos of people shooting rifles, from the grassy knoll.

Like the many shares shold short on American and United Airlines some four months before WTC 1&2, the amount of people behind the grassy knoll, was so great, that the railroad vagrants had noted this as unuasual traffic.

People with ties, government looking, with rifles, who said they were security???

Uncle Darby' in your conversations on cohearent light within the Anomalies.net, you had intimaited a knowledge of light as being cohearent in values and nature.

Light or C here within your radial visualized cone system, is and should not be dependened upon, as a sole carrier of any information.

Maybe this is also a prionic valued particle, which acts as not only a carrier of information, however as a synchronizer of values, of both polarity stance and balance, for the said time lines to go foward at all?

I had figured out earlier by measuring stances of varied happeneings peiced togeahter, certain event do almost happen the same within other said time lines.

However what is of inportants, in the set time which these events are supposed to occur, which gives balance to the multiverse.

Darby, my other me would like to extend thanks, for inviting me over to your place and the wonderful meal that you had served.

You are a most wonderful host, that has both charm, wit and considerable social couch.

Thank you very, very much, you are a sweet guy!

blush.gif
 
Daniel,

You're welcome...errr...jog my memory. What did we have for dinner?
wink.gif
 
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