Raidzuo

Temporal Novice
Over the past few days I've been trying to define time. After much thought I came to the conclusion that time is simply a coordinate. For example. If I were to give you directions using X, Y, Z you would know where to go, but you would not know when to leave or when you would arrive. Time is the final factor for determining an event. With X, Y, Z, and C, (time is C) your destination is complete. If time is a coordinate just like space, and gravity effects space, even curves it, can time be curved as well? Is time effected by gravity? Of course. If you were to live on the sun for 100 years, only 99 years on earth will have passed. If you lived on a neutron star for the same 100 years, only 66 years will have passed, and inside a black hole no time will pass. This is because a strong gravitational field stretches time just like it does to space. It's like the old saying "Clocks upstairs tick faster than ones in the basement."

This is nothing new I suppose, but then I began to think "what would the opposite of this effect be?" I had read somewhere a long time ago that if negative energy existed (otherwise known as anti-matter) it would move away from gravity, or fall "up" instead of down. But is it falling up, or traveling backwards in time? I reference back to what I said before, about how gravity stretches space and time. Does an environment that repels gravity compress it? If a perfect singularity (black hole) causes time and space to reach zero, does a white hole (an environment in which nothing can fall) cause time and space to expand infinitly inward? Would that movement allow you to travel inward in time? I'm not sure if that means traveling through time into the past but I find the idea interesting.

Tell me what you think.

Raidzuo,

Don't confuse anti-matter with exotic matter. Anti-matter doesn't possess negative energy. It's properties are the same as matter other than it annhiliates when in contact with it's counter-part particle.

Exotic matter, which was theorized by Kip Thorne for Carl Sagan as a method for time travel in the novel "Contact", would have negative energy (if it actually exists).

If you're talking about black holes then time is more than a simple coordinate construct.

Inside the event horizon of the BH the singularity does not have a particular spatial position relative to you. It's position is defined by your separation in time. All coordinates in that region of space lead to the singularity (they are radial coordinates) - its simply a matter of "time" until you reach the singularity.

A white hole in GTR would be the mirror image of a BH. It's gravitational effect would be greatest at a distance and be red shifted as you approach it. This implies that gravity decreases as you approach the event horizon and becomes repulsive inside the EH.

Just as anything can enter (but not escape) a BH, nothing can enter this mirror image but "anything" can exit. It may be a good thing that there is no evidence that they exist. The definition of "anything can exit" is literal and not necessarily a good thing if you happen to live in a universe where white holes can and do exist.

BTW: There is legitimate research being conducted on WH's. Hawking has done some, for instance, but has apparently abandoned it for now. I think that the problem is that in theory a BH should have a mirror image WH but we know so little about what occurs inside a BH that calculating what comes out of the WH is just speculation. We need to know a whole lot more about the quantum world inside a BH before we can answer the WH question.

Yes there is a moutian and then there is.....

Edit to E.W. Derbyshire;

All roads or points of entry into a black hole, do not lead directly to the singularity or flat-space.

If one were to be able to fly in a vehicle that was magnetically based, rather than had depended upon acceleration only; then the theory of laminations of black hole entry points, would come into understanding.

&gt;This is said, that if one accelerates at an angle to a proposed black hole proximity, one would then hit any varied entry point within magnetic layers on a black hole, so going into other dimensions of space.

So this entry point is understood as skewed as an angle, not an entry point going directly into the flat-space or singularity.

&gt;The academic question that should be raised here, is what of conditions surrounding a Kerr phenomoninon, or twin black hole, where the entry point may not exist nor high gravity at all?

Then what is your entry point into other dimensions?

Would this be a monticarlo, or near random series of mathematical chances, for you dimensional doorway.

&gt;This would be like Darby in his bathing suet scooping out ice-cream in his kitchen. The near monticarlo mathamatical precidents apply, then he's not there, however a split second, all of a sudden, Darby's right back there.

He comes right back there, however in a differing uniform; say in a kilt, however the kilt is madras, instead of traditional clan plaid patterns.

This phenomenon of flashing Darby, if you or I were near this phenomenon in Darby's kitchen, would be most confusing.

#This phenomenon would be similar to the equation sung as a song by folk singer, Donavan, (Yes' there is a mountain and then no mountain and then yes there is"?

However Darby doing a dance while scooping icream in his kitchen, , with the promise of an acceptable cream liquor poured on the ice cream, with cheerys and chocolate, "I'm sure is well beyond everyone's comprehension"?

&gt;&gt;First there is a Darby shelling ice cream and then there is no Darby and then there he is??! sung to Donavan's well placed verse, hmmmm??

The question belies the fact that there could be a veritable worlds; of Darbys all dressed within festive international dress, all making many deserts, in kitchens all over the universe.

The pure academic postulate still steps forward, what if each proposed entry point surrounding black holes, provides a differing reality?

Does this means that E.W. will afford us all a festive native dance, while serving us all desert?

Will this be beach boys tunes, affording such moves as the fruge and surf lore, or will it be the bonny bouncing steps associated with all lads and lassies of the emerald isle?

It seems to me that X,Y, Z and even C is still short of nailing down a 'Coordinate' in time.

One has to not only know X,Y,Z and C (Time) but another value (or set of complex values) to nail down the exact same (or is it the same) physical and time location.

The reason for this is the constantly moving Earth, not to mention the expanding universe.

Has anyone factored any of these into the theory of time travel?

Re: Puppy piddeled in the livingroom

Yes as a matter of fact, http://chronos.ws/ and they've done quite a good job at it too?!

Ayre,

You're correct...[x,y,z,] is incomplete. It's a 3d+1 coordinate so the fourth coordinate is "t" - [x,y,z,t]. "C" is a constant and is invariant under translation, rotation or transformation (in a vacuum).

Re: Is this Grenyea topped ice-cream?

What you two sillies have done, is assign entry points for whatever object into a black hole.
Ahhhhhhhh-ah' Darby, where is the ice cream..?

I said Montecarlo, as each black hole is diffent within general size and mechanics as this black hole rest within the structure of the cosmos.

However the mechanics of how light, which is really photon energy pressure coming into the veneer layers of a black hole, are roughly the same, regardless of whether this hole is rotating or not?

What is not clear here, is whether or not you have transcribed a felon which is an object, to entry points into a BH, or natural light, which in some phase has to cycle out?

What your dealing with here, is a dimensional doorway, surrounding black hole, due to the structure of space, not a set formula.

So the consistency might not always be the same, of space time, which ingest light, raw matter and other objects, such as a tub of high quality ice cream, carelessly tossed out of a flying saucer, traveling into the veneer layers, of a black hole.

So the angle would have to be an approach, somewhere in the fifteen to thirty degree angle, in order to hit the veiered magnetic other-real layers?

I would used something less in strength, such as a brown dwarf, rather than a BH?

Yata yata; Bartsuiack&gt;Black holes may be thought of as engines of creation both cycling in and rearranging matter and energy within the entire width and breadth of the known universe itself.

Black holes may not be engines of destruction as once thought, however engines of balance and creation, so adjusting energy equribrila in many fases of differing dimensions, within the entirtirty of the cosmose.

&gt;Edit roughly what she was prompting to say, in the 80's, however Marcia does not possess a phallus and her words might have fallen onto deaf ears.

Oh the power of the wand and what one well placed wand can do for a presidency or a kingdom, may that be.......?

negative energy.

Darby, I thought Anti-matter and negative energy were the same thing? I'm no expert. Could you give me a definition of both? I spent about 3 hours looking through scientific glossaries and could only find a definition of anti-matter. Which was exactly what I thought it was.

Also could you throw in a definition of exotic matter? I have a vague idea of what it is, but again I am not sure. It's very important to me. Thank you.

Re: negative energy.

Raidzuo,

As far as we know anti-matter has the same gravitational effect as ordinary matter.

Actually testing the theory is a bit difficult if you consider that any instrument that we would use is made of ordinary matter or emits ordinary matter such as electrons, photons, etc. Testing anhilates the anti-matter and a like mass of ordinaryy matter. We can only produce anti-matter a particle at a time so it doesn't hang around long enough to submit to any testing for gravity effects. Even if it did hang out for a while it would be almost impossible to test its gravitational properties. The charge of the particle is a billion-billion times stronger than the gravitation of the particle. "g" gets lost in the noise of "e" rather subsantially.

Exotic matter is far different. It would possess negative energy. In classical terms it would repel ordinary matter (anti-gravity). In terms of General Relativity it would warp space-time into a saddle (expansion) rather than a sphere (as is the case with ordinary matter).

Where exotic matter comes into play in time travel relates to worm holes. Under just about any solution for a worm hole it is extremely unstable. It always lies in the future light cone of the traveler and ends up pinching off (closing) before the traveler can enter it.

However, if exotic matter is injected into the throat of the worm hole it repels the hole and prevents it from pinching off.

Unfortunately, exotic matter isn't known to exist and so far there are no known solutions that even allow for it. But the though is there and if it canbe produced then someone will eventually produce it.

BTW: Exotic matter came about in a rather strange way. Carl Sagan approached Kip Thorne in 1987 while writing "Contact." Michael Morris, Kip Thorne, and Uri Yertsever (MTY) at CalTech ended up publishing a paper called "Traversible Worm Holes" based on the answer to Sagan's problem in "Contact." MTY concluded that to keep a wormhole open would require matter with a negative energy density and a large negative pressure-larger in magnitude than the energy density.

So a cosmologist/sci-fi writer (Sagan) asked a question for a novel and got an answer that was ultimately published not only in the novel but in a theoretical physics paper.

My View...

Here is my opinion on time travel. If it is possible...then it will be possible in the future. Other than waiting until we discover it for ourselves in our own time, why not make a date to inform ourselfs of time travel when it is possible. Example: Say we as humans do not discover time travel until the year 2079. Why not from todays date on make a pact with ourselves that we will return on the date Jan 1st 2004 to inform the past (being our present) that time travel is possible. Make this pact to return to the date Jan 1st 2004 known to all divisions of science deticated to time travel... When the date Jan 1st 2004 finally arives, we will know if time travel is a possibility based on wether or not we receive visitors from our future. I hope I made that point clear...let me know what you think..

Chris...

Re: an interesting concept

Friend Chrisholt13341 of EarthTR125.0121

It is quite interesting but it is already being done, in fact it was done in newspapers as early as in 1923. However, if it ever happens you have to watch out for who is coming back.

Until later becomes now.

Re: an interesting concept

so then, if you say it has already been done, and that nobody from the future has ever come back to tell us of the possibility of time travel, then doesn't that say something... i guess there would be one of two reasons for this, 1: time travel is impossible 2: the future decided it was better for us to figure time travel out on our own... what exactly happened in 1923 can you direct me to a web site that i can read about this event and what happened? thanks

Re: an interesting concept

However, if it ever happens you have to watch out for who is coming back.

Errr...ahhh, who else, other than those who came back, would he be watching out for? Those who didn't come back?

Re: a matter of characterology

Friend Darby

I was reffering to types of people. You do not want the wrong kind of temporal sojourner arriving at your door post.

Until later becomes now.

Re: a matter of characterology

Hey buddy, could you please send me a link or URL to a site tha contains information about the events of 1923 that you mentioned earlier? please be able to back up what you say...thanks... and i still dont' understand what you mean about watching out for people visiting...isn't that what we want to experience? thanks...

Re: To Darby

Dear Darby'

I would like to publicly address a few issues to you and these have with past differences and this board.

I'm sorry that I had trucked with you in the past.This was over my missing time issue.

I've found someone who has unraveled this issue for me and it's over now.

On your posting on this board:

I don't care what you write, however if you go back and look over your recent post, you will see that your using a lot of abbreviations in the technical scientific context of your postings?

Yes this move does sure save space, however there are a lot of beginners here, who don't understand what BH EH of other abbreviations might mean......?

What I suggest that you do, is go-ahead and make your post using the abbreviations, however within your copy edit, prior to posting, lengthen your abbreviations.This so that the part time armatures who do not have your stature in math and physics, understand what your talking about.

I kid you, to see that you still might be normal, however there is no humor within any or your return comments.

This means either a grudge, or your totally ignoring me, which I don't feel is the case.

Here at TTI, I'm sure a wider, less formalized format is concurrent with most of the post offered, rather than the, "Its a top secret attitude, of Anomalies, which seems at time to be a haven for the spooks"?

I will quit kidding you, however forgiveness helps mends our ways along.

Peace to you and good luck.

Re: To Darby

Daniel,

Ok...BH...bla ole.

Is that a long enough extension?

Hey - I'm not ignoring you. I think that I even gave you kudos on a post a week or so ago (involving math as I recall).

Spooky