"The future ain't what it used to be."

Is time travel integral to the natural progression of man in his universe.

G

Guest

I have read so much quality stuff on this board....A thought ocurred to me today that I have been processing ....We as humans live in this condo in the universe and have developed a fair degree of technology and a philosophy related to wanting to know what is out there as well as a scientific community that contemplates why we live in such a big sea of
other worlds. The Drake equation tells us that the odds are that there are other intelligent beings out there evolving in there own way based ont there environment. I guess my question is by virtue of the vastness of the universe , is mankind destined to unlock the secrets that will allow us to learn and understand the reason why we are here and why we are such a small part of such a big picture. IF there is anyone elso out there who is more highly evolved have they any interest in us.....Why havent we been dealt with like the younger brother who needs the drection of the older civilization...or alternatively are we an experiment or a source of protien, minerals or other elements that will be harvested at an ultimate time.

Kevin
 
Really excellent questions and train of thought.

As much as I disbelieve in the possibility of time travel, I'm also aware that my belief is based on CURRENTLY available evidence and knowledge.

History has shown that at any given moment, no matter how much we think we are on the cutting edge, we are still overlooking SOMETHING.

A favorite theory of mine is that we actually ARE the result of a genetic experiment by ETs on the earlier hominids of this planet. Sort of a 'jump start' on an already existing form if you will. I have no proof, no evidence, and not too many folks who will not look at me funny for suggestiong it, but I like it's elegance in the solutions it provides to some very old questions. It evens offers an explanation for some of the various root myths that make up our various religions.

It's also a little frightening since if we ever do meet up with ET, he may not turn out to be the benevolent guide we want him to be. And of course there may be, and probably are, many of them out there in VARIOUS stages of development. Perhaps some of a benevolent nature, perhaps some not so.
 
I love thinking about these matters too.

It does seem that when a lot of people theorise about time travel, they don't take into account our 'place' in the universe.

I'm convinced that during the ultimate duration of the universe, other civilliations have (and will) rise far above the point that we are currently at, technologically, socially, philosophically etc (hopefully including ourselves). I'm 99% convinced that there are 'currently' beings/races roaming about that are far more advanced than us. All that is required is an earlier start than we had and the required staying power. (As to whether we've seen them and/or been visited, I simply don't know). Maybe, maybe not?

There may be powers around that would appear to be virtually gods compared to us, but are actually just older.

Are they Vorlons or Shadows though? (Yes, I adore Babylon 5 - but within reason
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.

Would they have left monoliths around all over the place to encourage/stimulate the developement of intelligent life? - A different kind of farmer. A gardener if you like..

If we ever do learn how to time travel, it is incredibly doubtfull that we'd be the first. I feel that expecting our future selves to be the only beings capable of directing the flow of history and providing conclusive 'clumsy' evidence of such undertakings to be misguided at best.
I also feel that people who believe that because we don't see plain signs of time travel in our 'time' that it is thus not possible, are being shortsighted and closed minded. We may be wiped out by an asteroid in the next ten, next hunded years(quite possible, but fingers crossed) before we learned how to time travel. Additionally, for all we know, our present existence could be the result of some alien time travellers affecting some turning point in our evolution. Our very existence could be the result of what we do not believe in because we never manage it ourselves. Deliciously ironic wouldn't you agree?

This is why I try to remain open minded in a universe of possibilities.
Do I believe in time travel? I don't know. What I do believe though is that I don't know everything about the universe.

That is my 'liberated' stance..For a start, it can take into account new developments.

I'm not simply sitting on the fence though as I hope anyone who has read some of my other messages would agree.

It would be interesting if this opened up some more wide ranging discussion, let's not just consider our own front porch..
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Whether you sway towards a predetermined single universe theory or multiple realities, there is one inescapable 'truth'. If time travel is possible, it has already helped to 'shape' the 'past', by maintaining it (predeterminancy theory), or by creating it(infinate parallels).

Thanks and bye bye for now..
 
Just quickly adding..

Firstly I meant to type in 'development' not 'developement'..doh!..(embarrassed).

More importantly, note how I used the term 'gardener' for extra terrestrial benefactors (take out time travel(just an idle thought) and you have the alien intelligence from 2001).

Anyhow, 'gardener' implies nurturing and encouraging the growth and development of the subject in question (whether you are referring to plants or sentient races), but it can also imply something more sinister...

Pruning, weeding. Sometimes complete removal is warranted if the gardener is not sufficiently impressed with the subject's development, or the subject is adversely affecting the development of others.(Arthur C Clarke's final Odyssey book, 3001 covers this).

It's quite chilling to think that the fate of the whole human race, or indeed any race, could be determined by whether or not it's development is deemed as beneficial to the galaxy or perhaps even the universe at large by some intelligence far beyond ours.

('The Day the Earth Stood Still' has some degree of relevance here.)

As I have said, we live in a universe of almost infinate possibilties.
 
Re:Just quickly adding..

Hopefully we will continue to propagate. If we do and for some twist of fate we DO manage to exist as a species for an an incredibly long time then I assume that we would HAVE to figure out how to avoid the degradation of matter, or to the other extreme another big crunch(even though they now claim that the universe is expanding quickly enough to avoid another crunch... I'm still undecided from what I've recently read though). Time travel, or multi-dimensional travel, seems like a very plausible escape plan. Can anyone think of any others that might escape me? I'd love to hear your ideas.
I'm very impressed with the insight that this board represents. I've never been in a forum where someone makes a comment and I say to myself "hey, I've got something to add as well." and by the time I've read the addendums to it most permutations have been covered already. This is a very intelligent group of people here. I appreciate all of your comments. Thanks!
 
Hopefully we will continue to propagate. If we do and for some twist of fate we DO manage to exist as a species for an an incredibly long time then I assume that we would HAVE to figure out how to avoid the degradation of matter, or to the other extreme another big crunch(even though they now claim that the universe is expanding quickly enough to avoid another crunch... I'm still undecided from what I've recently read though). Time travel, or multi-dimensional travel, seems like a very plausible escape plan. Can anyone think of any others that might escape me? I'd love to hear your ideas.
I'm very impressed with the insight that this board represents. I've never been in a forum where someone makes a comment and I say to myself "hey, I've got something to add as well." and by the time I've read the addendums to it most permutations have been covered already. This is a very intelligent group of people here. I appreciate all of your comments. Thanks!
 
Re:Re:Is time travel integral to the natural progression of man in his universe.

Here's an even scarier thought then ETs jumpstarting our evolution...What if we did it ourselves? What if in the future time travel is not only a possibility but that it is discovered that the only way we can exist is if we went back to create our race in the past?

Well I thought it was an interesting idea....
 
Re:Re:Just quickly adding..

Well, first off, you talk about the need to prevent degradation of matter. Yes, a large problem, but if we are talking about extending human lifetimes by significantly large amounts, I would imagine that making our bodies longer lasting would be part and parcel of this. One would necessitate and lead to the other.

We've already started down this road though haven't we. If any of a sizable number of our organs is failing, we now have the technological means to replace it, sometimes with a living organ, sometimes with a totally artificial one. On a more seemingly trivial level, artificial enhancement is also becoming more and more commonplace. We are obviously still in the early days, but the ultimate implications are clear.

It is not inconceivable that one day we may abandon our biological bodies almost all together - cyborgs - a human brain within a totally artificial body. Imagine beings able to 'live' for hundreds, thousands of years, perhaps more, I guess the brain would be the limit. If you've removed the ravaging effect of time on most of our biological processes, who knows what kind of lifespans we could be talking of.

Then you could add have genetic engineering to the equation.

I'm not getting in to the moral implications however, before you automatically think of The Borg etc.

What if we could actually separate the processes of the brain that make us what we are, and map them onto an artificial matrix.
That would be the last of our biological selves gone. How long could you 'live', if you could replace everything when it eventually wears out, forever? Would you want to? Could you to all intents and purposes still call yourself you? I don't know..

That may not be the end though. When you have evolved as far as matter will take you, what then. Star Trek has theorised on beings that have evolved into energy, basically unrestrained intelligence/thought patterns etc many times (the Organians (although they seemed to have bypassed the machine stage though) etc..) So has Arthur C Clarke...again with 2001 etc..

Could you evolve any further than this? Maybe the 'end' of the universe (although I don't really support the notion of a beginning or end in the traditional sense) would provide the answer to that..

One thing that seems to be apparent, is that a lot of us are living just about as long these days as human beings naturally can (if you're lucky) ie..old age. This leads to the conclusion that the next step in prolonging longevity (for those lucky enough to avoid ill health etc) will need to involve artificial means, genetic ot technological..

I hope that that's some food for thought....
 
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