"The future ain't what it used to be."

Living the lie - or 'saving' the world

JamesAnthony

Timekeeper
Living the lie - or \'saving\' the world

OK here's a question. The idea is from a book I'm working on, but I just wanted to float the idea to get a few responses...

Imagine you've discovered a way to cross over into a parallel universe. Judging by your calculations you forecast that this new world should only differ from your own in a very slight way - if at all. However, you find that this new world is vastly different from anything you could have imagined. Don't worry, humans still rule the planet!! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif But history is different. People don't have the same values and you personally find this world to be dispicable. Now, upon doing a bit of research in both worlds you manage to locate the point where the two worlds diverged. To your amazement it seems to be down to a Time Traveller who left this alternate world to create your own world. He has become rich and powerful in your world due his 'vast' knowledge.

However, in a personal confrontation with this person, you learn that according to the time line of the alternate reality, he hasn't left yet. You still have the opportunity to stop him. Unfortunately, doing so will turn your own world into a hellish place like the world you have visited.

The dilemma is clear. Do you accept that your world is a lie that was never meant to be, thus try and stop this time traveller before he creates it? Or do you do nothing to prevent the departure, knowing that there is a possibility that once the 'loop' is closed - this 'alternate' world will cease to exist? The fate of two worlds are in your hands - only one can exist...

I'd love to hear your thoughts...

James
 
Re: Living the lie - or \'saving\' the world

Humans are a selfish species, so i reacon they wouldn't do anything. Although if they don't this chap would also cease to exist so he wouldn't have been able to alter our world anyway. So we end up with a hellish world or whatever anyway.
Fun or what,
/ttiforum/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Re: Living the lie - or \'saving\' the world

mmmmmm..........maybe not as simple as that, if all probabilities would be represented. Then there would be a worldline where that did happen.

Infinite worldlines imply infinite realities (well as infinite as a real big number) where all realities happen anyway, and really no one really exists, if all those worldlines exist.

The person just happened into a worldline where that did happen, but as with anything, an older book explained some of what inventions happened, and how it would be nearly impossible to get to all the events that made it happen, and that book was Jonathan Burke's book: "Connections", where one would have to trace back to the plow and the loom to actually change anything in the future that traced that invention way back to those earlier inventions.

That would amount to an enormus amount of events that would all have to change, and that would be impossible to do, in the end, because someone esle would come along later and invent the same item or something similiar so a time traveler would be stuck time traveling for infinity!
In the end!
 
Re: Living the lie - or \'saving\' the world

It's an interesting idea! I once asked JT if he thought it was fair helping one worldline, knowing other worldlines would still have the same problem (or worse).

It would make a good story. However, there's no right choice in this matter... saving the parallel universe will cause your own universe to live in agony like you said. I'm curious how your version of the story would end...


Roel
 
Re: Living the lie - or \'saving\' the world

Ignorance is Bliss, would it matter really? what ever ou did, your world line would never know and it would have happened naturaly so your worldline would never know what there were missing.
 
Re: Living the lie - or \'saving\' the world

The person just happened into a worldline where that did happen, but as with anything, an older book explained some of what inventions happened, and how it would be nearly impossible to get to all the events that made it happen, and that book was Jonathan Burke's book: "Connections", where one would have to trace back to the plow and the loom to actually change anything in the future that traced that invention way back to those earlier inventions.

That would amount to an enormus amount of events that would all have to change, and that would be impossible to do, in the end, because someone esle would come along later and invent the same item or something similiar so a time traveler would be stuck time traveling for infinity!
In the end!

Yes the idea of two worldlines = infinite worldlines does cause some logistical problems. I'm trying to base the decision of the knowledge that time-travel interfered in the normal course of events on the worldline of the main character.
I couldn't find references for the book you mentioned. Can you elaborate on what you meant please?

Ignorance is Bliss, would it matter really? what ever ou did, your world line would never know and it would have happened naturaly so your worldline would never know what there were missing.

/ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif'Ignorance is Bliss' - the same arguement that the time-traveller uses to defend his actions. Unfortunately the two characters are diametrically opposed on this....




"Ignorance is bliss? No! As a scientist I can't accept that. And I don't know how you can either!", I said standing firm. This old fossil was not going to shake me on this so easily.
Price looked down at his now empty glass. A wry smile formed on his face. It was as if he becoming lost in his thoughts again. Before I could say anything, he looked at me directly, the smile became wider, and held up his glass. "Do you mind?"

Without taking my eyes from his, I walked over and took the glass from his boney fingers. I made the mistake of turning my back as I walked to the bar.

"Maybe...", Price began, "Maybe, I once thought like that. But over the years I've forced myself to believe otherwise. When you tell yourself something over and over again, you begin to believe it as the truth..."

I had opened the liquor and was pouring his drink.

"...you put your faith in this truth, because otherwise you would go mad with grief. And faith is a dangerous thing..."

I stopped. I somehow sensed what was coming. I turned around slowly, still holding the glass in my right hand.

"...Faith is something men would die for. Faith is something that men would kill for..."

The urge to vomit nearly overwhelmed me. My heart was beating faster, but it seemed to be the only part of me that was capable of movement. The rest of my body was frozen. The old man didn't seem so feeble anymore, now that he was firmly gripping a pistol...


Din - Din - Din!!! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks for the comments

James
 
Re: Living the lie - or \'saving\' the world

I would have to say if I was said person to go back and stop the individual from doing what they did. I would have to go back before they even had the chance to. Eliminate them right then and there and live the rest of my life out on the line that I had come out on. Or go back talk with a writer and tell them about my adventures and what will transpire in the distant future. Maybe call it the time machine. Oh wait that book has already been written. hmmmm. never mind.
 
Re: Living the lie - or \'saving\' the world

Let him rule! What's one mans gain for a planets profits?

IF that didn't come out right then here: I've had the thought many times, if I went back in time, the first thing I would do is profit of my knowledge, of course it only seems like the logical thing to right? When I was younger I read a series of books called Everworld about a group of teenagers thrown into a world of gods and suff, it's got some intiresting details I won't go into, but it's a good series for anyone who wants to read it. I mean, it sounds like the beggining to what you're saying... still... There's no reason to spoil the guy's fun, just go back to your dimention and threaten him, get a piece of the action and you live nicely... I mean,it would be a cool piece of fiction if he threatened the guy and had his life on the line in return... right?
 
Re: Living the lie - or \'saving\' the world

I would have to say if I was said person to go back and stop the individual from doing what they did. I would have to go back before they even had the chance to. Eliminate them right then and there and live the rest of my life out on the line that I had come out on. Or go back talk with a writer and tell them about my adventures and what will transpire in the distant future. Maybe call it the time machine. Oh wait that book has already been written. hmmmm. never mind.

Hi Stalker619,

Are you comparing my idea with the recent film 'The Time Machine'? Interesting comment. Although the book had a completely different ending(and fairly different story too). Jefferey Irons character was created for the movie. You can read the original at Project Guttengurg - a great resource for books that no longer possess copyrights.

Here's a link to the book:
HG Wells - The Time Machine

As I said though, interesting point. In my story the time traveller would be the bad guy for interfering with the natural element of human choice. We effectively lose our free will because an outcome is chosen for us.

One could argue that the worldline traveller is also guilty of this - but therein lies the conflict.

Let him rule! What's one mans gain for a planets profits?

IF that didn't come out right then here: I've had the thought many times, if I went back in time, the first thing I would do is profit of my knowledge, of course it only seems like the logical thing to right? When I was younger I read a series of books called Everworld about a group of teenagers thrown into a world of gods and suff, it's got some intiresting details I won't go into, but it's a good series for anyone who wants to read it. I mean, it sounds like the beggining to what you're saying... still... There's no reason to spoil the guy's fun, just go back to your dimention and threaten him, get a piece of the action and you live nicely... I mean,it would be a cool piece of fiction if he threatened the guy and had his life on the line in return... right?

Ah... but what is the planet's gain? What if the change in history brought about a pseudo utopia? Ie the main character sees the other world as a hellish place only because it is so alien to what he knows as reality.
One more thing - did these kids choose to go to this world or was by some sort of accident? That's the difference here. The time-traveller here explicitly builds the machine so he can profit from it in the past - knowing that he can't return to his present.

Nevertheless an interesting idea.

James
 
Re: Living the lie - or \'saving\' the world

Ah... but what is the planet's gain? What if the change in history brought about a pseudo utopia? Ie the main character sees the other world as a hellish place only because it is so alien to what he knows as reality.
One more thing - did these kids choose to go to this world or was by some sort of accident? That's the difference here. The time-traveller here explicitly builds the machine so he can profit from it in the past - knowing that he can't return to his present.

Nevertheless an interesting idea.

James

Utopia shouldn't be a sort of hellish reality no matter how you see it. Some might argue that hell is no choices, but others say that as long as you're happy then who needs choices? It's all relative.

So he chooses to profit, the guy's smart... heh. Besides, he probably did the world a lot of good by advancing technology.
 
Re: Living the lie - or \'saving\' the world

Hmmm I wonder what would happen if I went back and outfitted Cave men with Glocks and Auto-matic shotguns.

I mean how would we then advance in technoligy, if theres different worldlines I say we get out there and start expermenting!
 
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