"The future ain't what it used to be."

What about the scientific method, having a control?

socksguy

Timekeeper
I was reading all the posts for John Titor and I thought of one thing that wouldn't make any sense if he were a time traveler as he claims. He said he can never return to his original world line. If that were true then how did they even develop a time machine. In order for new technology to be created you have to be able to test the use of it. If you can never return then you would never know if your machine truly works. He also mentions that he was sent back to obtain a computer from 1975 to fix a Unix problem in his day. If that is true then how would he ever help the people who sent him back. Are they just hoping that a version of John Titor from a similar universe will appear in their own? Maybe they will do a time traveler rain dance, "heya heya heya heya". This guy sounds like a member of a cult to me upon further thought. He wants people to believe that the government is put into a civil war by individuals who bomb buildings because of the government eavesdropping into people's lives which leads to warrant-less searches and such. Cult militia groups have always hated the way the government spies on them. This sounds like propaganda handed down by one of their groups. Thus we see their efforts in disabling American life succeeding to the ultimate effect of civil war. Not only that but a doomsday ending occurs in which the people BOMBING THE BUILDINGS ultimately win. Helter Skelter-Charley Manson anyone? Another non believable aspect is the fact that nuclear winter plays no role in the nuking of "every major city in the world". If there were enough bombs set off to kill 3 billion people, half the worlds populous, then there would be no avoiding the end of all life as we know it. Nuclear bombs would cause massive fires and stir up enough dust to cover the world. There would be no recovering from it. He says there are still nuclear weapons but no one uses them because the world is tired of war and would bomb the hell out whoever did it. I'm sorry but that is the same reason there is no war right now, MAD- mutually assured destruction. Supposedly Russia launches enough bombs to destroy every major city in Europe and America, then a counterstrike by America. I highly doubt any government would sanction the death of everyone on the planet, themselves included. Whoever is responsible for the posts is very intelligent, I'll give them that much. I can't find good proof these posts actually come from 2000. They could have been recently done and touted as from that year. I could see a militia group take part in discussing the issue posing as an objective discussion. Everyone putting their two cents in and varying arguments all left in. The group could have had there own forum and the leader told everyone to act like they are arguing with John and put their best arguments in. The time machine questions seem kind of staged. They seemed like questions John wanted to answer, like he was putting out a speech. I get that from the several paragraph long responses in the opening of the forum. Like he was setting a stage. I've seen several people defend the dates of the forum by saying they remember them but how can we believe that. The websites given to prove that the dates were in 2000/2001 could be staged by technologically proficient. Of course maybe I'm wrong about all of that but when I look at it objectively to me it just seems like an internet version of a guy walking down the streets of New York with a billboard on his body saying, "the end is near".
 
Suppposably he went back got the computer went forward talked to us in 2000/01. Then went back to before he got to 1976 like 1975 (Forgot the dates) and then went forward in time before his own state of the future came to 1976. So thus nothing has changed except our worldline where he came and talked to us.
Understand? /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
I was reading all the posts for John Titor and I thought of one thing that wouldn't make any sense if he were a time traveler as he claims. He said he can never return to his original world line. If that were true then how did they even develop a time machine. In order for new technology to be created you have to be able to test the use of it.

He would not return to his timeline but one very close to his, and some John from a timeline very close to his own would return to his own. It would appear that it was the same John on all timelines that were near zero devergence.

It is like trying to conceptualize "now." As soon as you think about "now" it is "past." There are an infinite number of "nows" in a day, a minute, and a second. When we think of "now" we are really thinking of an infinite number of "nows."
 
Your response doesn't answer the question of how they even started manned travel when you could never test it in the first place. Even with many different worldlines that would be similar there would still be those that start to diverge, you could never know if you're on the edge or not. Like I said you would have to do a time traveler rain dance and hope you got your time traveler back. Other worldlines might end up with two or three or even hundreds. I'm sorry but if your time machine costs billions of dollars to develop you don't just through it away.
 
Your response doesn't answer the question of how they even started manned travel when you could never test it in the first place.

No offense intended, but all of this is speculation until we have a better theory of Time that eliminates the paradoxes inherent in our linear interpretation of it. We can't realistically rationalize what/how/why of time travel without a better model of time.

Incidentally, let me point something out about the persona of Titor. Titor is to his alleged time machine as a pilot is to an aircraft. Now it might surprise some of you to hear this, but the vast majority of pilots do not understand the deeper scientific aspects of aerodynamics and/or the engineering principles that control their vehicle. Some do, but most do not. I often deal with people who won't believe me when I answer a question they have about aircraft/aerodynamics. They want to hear it from a pilot. However, the engineer is the one who understood the science enough to put it into working practice. The pilot simply drives the bus, and only needs to understand it from a superficial level of "doing this makes that happen".

The analogy here is intended to encourage you to re-think putting a lot of credence into Titor's explanation of his alleged time machine. Even in his posts, he admitted he was a (history? literature?) major. To really understand that machine, or the aspects of time travel that it deals with, you want to talk to one of the GE systems engineers who allegedly worked to develop, test, and certify that thing.

Kind Regards,
RainmanTime
 
Most of your points are valid, except one...

I can't find good proof these posts actually come from 2000. They could have been recently done and touted as from that year.

I was here in 2000 and the posts actually do come from 2000, as many of the forum members will confirm. I only recently returned to this forum after being away for a couple of years and I was surprised to see that the Titor-story was still a subject of discussion. I'm very sceptic about John Titor, but nobody has ever been able to disprove his stories. Also, some of his predictions were accurate to some degree.

Roel
 
I was here in 2000 and the posts actually do come from 2000, as many of the forum members will confirm. I only recently returned to this forum after being away for a couple of years and I was surprised to see that the Titor-story was still a subject of discussion. I'm very sceptic about John Titor, but nobody has ever been able to disprove his stories. Also, some of his predictions were accurate to some degree.

I was here too, though I don't think I partook in the discussion - just discmissed it as a hoax and went back to studying for my exams! I think I made the right choice /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I've been away too and like Roel I was extremely surprised to see the topic still going. Unfortunately it seems to have killed off this forum - it used to be much more livelier and VARIED!
/ttiforum/images/graemlins/frown.gif

James
 
I found several online encyclopedias that verified that this guy did indeed post in 2000 so I retract my idea that these posts were done later than that. I still think it's very possible that he was a member of a cult militia group and that his first couple of questions were staged. Also another point to bring out is he could have been playing on the big news of the time, the elections. It is very likely that he really does live in Florida where the biggest of the election troubles happened in 2000. The reason I say that is because it would only make sense, that way he could answer any questions about Florida.
 
You are very right; he wouldn't know all the details of how the machine worked. On the other hand even a pilot knows that his plane flies due to lift created by the shape of the wing. The basic principles of flight are known to all pilots just as the basic principles of time travel would be known to a time traveler. Even more so, consider the rigorous training astronauts go through. If this guy if he were a time traveler he would be well versed in the workings of time travel. If not because it is a higher level of travel than spaceflight and regular flight combined then because of the simple and unavoidable fact that he travels alone. If his machine were to fail he would be the only person to fix it. Therefore the simplest of logic leads one to the very probable assumption that a time traveler of that nature would be well versed in the workings of his machine. That being said, I'm no physicist but I can understand the very plain and simple aspect of the time travel he described, traveling through different worldlines. I'm sorry but he would know if he had the ability to return to his original worldline. In fact he said himself that he could not return. That brings me right back to my first point of using the scientific method. How the heck could they advance the machine to the level of manned travel if they can never even get the damned thing back in the first place? In order to improve a device from preliminary designs one has to test it and this would be impossible if you never again see the device you are trying to improve. Another thing to consider, he said that there would be no paradox because he isn't on his own worldline. If one would argue the fact that another John Titor would return to his worldline then you would have to accept the fact that in all likelihood there would be different John Titor on his worldline doing exactly what he is doing. This brings you right back to the paradox issue. It has to be one or the other, either they lose the machine or there are johns from enough universes to cause a paradox
 
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