"The future ain't what it used to be."

What causes Matter to Move?

RainmanTime

Timekeeper
Let's lay down some more foundation for thought here, OK? Again, let's use the self-similar fractal paradigm. We will start at a microcosm and see if we can infer something about the macrocosm.

When you are sitting at the breakfast table, and you lift that cup of coffee to your lips to take a sip... what is the prime mover? What is the "force" that causes that Matter to take on the characteristic of Motion? Now, I don't want an electrical or mechanical analysis, because no matter (pun!) how you slice that pie, it doesn't go far enough back to the real source of motion.

The short answer: It is your INTENTION that causes the motion. This non-physical (hyperphysical? transphysical?) aspect of yourself is the "prime mover" in this case. You are, indeed, the creator of motion when it comes to that coffee cup. Extend the boundaries of the microcosm outwards a bit to see if it still applies: What was the "prime mover" that resulted in the Wright Brothers (sorry, I havea fetish for flight!) exhibiting motion in the form of flight? Yep, their INTENTION.

Now....when we talk about the "Dark Energy" that NASA WMAP data tells us is "out there", and the fact that it is the largest component of energy/matter in our universal soup... could this possibly be related to the "prime mover" of our universe at the grand macroscopic scale?

So what is your INTENTION in coming to this board and sharing?


Kind Regards,
RainmanTime
 
Just wait a second, whom are you talking to here?

So what is your INTENTION in coming to this board and sharing?

To prepare the way and usher in a fresh perspective to new forms of thought.

Is it you that really initiates the Coffee cup applied to lips, or is it perhaps the coffee cup that has spoken first saying, here I am, drink me?

The cup itself was certainly there to begin with even before you thought it. Add coffee and it gives it a reason to coexist and interact.

Why did you place it there on the table in front of you? Because it's in arms reach. The relative distance that it needs to be in comfort proximity. Rather, consider it gravity and the correct spot. Both are so similar and close in time and space that the miraculous event goes un-noticed and un-applauded.
 
First to CAT:

Just wait a second, whom are you talking to here?

I speak to the collective, as in a pondering question...so those who feel it applies and answer accordingly, it obviously DID apply! :D But stick around, CAT, cuz you might enjoy what comes next:

To Iridium:

I made a thread similar to this a while back entitled "What precedes a thought?"

I agree, we are on the same line of thought. Now here is a little "model" that I feel somewhat compelled to share on this topic. It attempts to quantify how something is made manifest in the physical realm by using 3 words, and aligns them with the 4 distinct "layers" of the Qabalistic Tree Of Life (TOL):

Awareness - Aligned with the top (supernal) triad on the TOL. Before one can assume the levels below this one, one must have an AWARENESS of what it is they wish to manifest.

Attitude - Aligned with the middle triad on the TOL. Once one has acquired awareness that there is a "void" which you seek to fill, one can then adopt specific attitudes (plans) for how to realize the manifestation.

Attention - Aligned with the lower triad on the TOL. Having selected an attitude (developed a plan), one can now focus their conscious attention on accomlpishing those tasks that comprise the plan.

The fourth level is the result of applying attention, in accordance with your chosen attitude for that which you are aware you wish to create. This is the level of physical manifestation!

And as CAT suggests: If one accepts that the coffee/cup has SOME level of consciousness, then the concept of harmonious vibrations might indeed suggest that at the same time you went thru the "awareness-attitude-attention" process to pick up the coffee and drink it, the coffee/cup went thru its own "a-a-a" process to encourage you to do it.

Kind Regards,
RainmanTime
 
From what I was gathering in your heading was some thing completly off. The thought that was going on in my head was this.

How does matter move through space. current answer. the vac effect. Helped along by the muons that pop in and out of exsistance.

Don't mind my spelling I am not an english major or have any major at that. Just a guy who pounds rivets and paint air planes for a living.

The other thing that struck me as I was reading along was your fasination with air craft. You could consider it matter/mass . Which you need trust and lift to move it.

But the last post got me. It was more in the spiritual sense and or kinda Like ORM. you have your diffrant aspects of weighing the possiblities and situations. Like with wiccan beliefs you set out your spirtual energies or chi as some ppl call it. it goes around in the either and bio electricly charges the area around you. Thus imposing your will on out side forces. Basicly mind over matter. Same with christians and pryer. Yes it does affect us because we are all interconnected on a sub con... If you ever read the 100 monkies theory you might be a bit impressed.

But this is what i have to say. You wanted a cup of coffee. placed it on the table. brought it to your lips and tasted it. It tasted like coffee and was warm like coffee. But was it really coffee you were drinking.
 
Well, I sure have to admit that you pose some interesting questions Rainman. Somehow I feel a little bit baited here because the question of dark matter involving the "grand mover" gets to the very heart of matters.

The search for the magic "formula" explaining the universe has to be not only concise (like E=mc2}, it has to be "beautiful" as well. Of course the mathemetician's definition of beauty has nothing to do with aesthetics. Lets consider the phrase "the earth was without form and darkness was upon the deep". Being without form, the earth (matter) was in the "intention" phase. The only things that existed physically were space and time.(in the beginning--darkness upon the deep). I assume the "space" and "time" had boundaries because they were within the limits of intention. It would be impossible to extend beyond that boundary. Now add to the mix a little bit of matter (say about a tenth or so) and then "move" upon them to set matter in its proper rotations and, presto, what comes up is a closed-looped system that produces every single kind of matter, space, energy and time. The resulting pressurized space system would precisely meed the needs of any variety of space systems. It solves the Heisenberg Uncertainty ambiguity, gives a rational explanation for non local events, connects all the contradictions and even allows for opposing theories such as big bang, superstring and others to be able to coexist within the same framework. Everything is relative to the view of intention.

The final and most glorious aspect of the closed loop system is the replication of intention (made in our image). In this simple act, dominion was given over the earth and everything above and below it. The replicants have been subdueing it all ever since and has reached the final phases of creating(almost at will) exotic forms of matter and the resulting energies. They are beginning to get a feel for the time aspect as well. Several fields have opened up recently in those areas and are not as "fringe" as they once were.

As for my "intention" on posting to this forum, it is not much different than original intention. Only love could have conceived of such beauty. I will sing of it all my life.
 
Freaky post you got here Rainman,

makes me think about how things move, I mean I'm sitting here waving my arm infront of my face trying to figure out how it's happening.
 
I just love all the interaction! I learn an awful lot by understanding how others see things. I hope you all are learning in the same way....helps raise vibrations, I'm told!
OK, let's go in reverse order:

makes me think about how things move, I mean I'm sitting here waving my arm infront of my face trying to figure out how it's happening.

You are quite an amazing, creative Being, aren't you Keven? /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Well, Zerub, I guess since everyone thinks I am "baiting" them, that probably means I should get rid of that "temporal fishing" crack in my profile! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif I guess if I am baiting people, it might comfort you to know I am a strictly "catch and release" fisherman. Now when you say:

Lets consider the phrase "the earth was without form and darkness was upon the deep".

Have you ever read the book "Qabalah: The Mystical Heritage of the Children of Abraham" (Daniel Hale Feldman) or any of the "Work of the Chariot" material? Appendix B of Feldman's book has what I find to be an awesome treatise on Torah Berashith, wherein he aligns the 1st 28 letters of Genesis with principles of modern cosmology. It begins with "IT created SIX" as aligning with the 6 symmetry breaks of physics. Fascinating stuff, IMHO.

And Stalker619, methinks you DO have a "major":

Like with wiccan beliefs you set out your spirtual energies or chi as some ppl call it. it goes around in the either and bio electricly charges the area around you. Thus imposing your will on out side forces. Basicly mind over matter. Same with christians and pryer.

Cool correlations. I think more of those Christians who denounce "pagan" beliefs could learn a lot from your alignment of prayer with a focusing of spiritual energies. And on the "mind over matter", I find it coincidentally interesting how the physical structure of the Tree Of Life is a literal manifestation of this saying, with the 9 upper spheres representing "mind" which is "over" (literally and metaphysically) the "matter" of the physical universe in sphere #10.

And I don't want to forget Keven's question:

I've heard it talked about a lot, so can you tell what a particle accelerater is?

It is a very large scientific facility in the shape of a ring (or a straight line) that can occupy several acres of land. The "particles" being accelerated are good ole electrons, protons, and neutrons that make up the atom. Here is a good web page to describe "atom smashers".

Kind Regards,
RainmanTime
 
I've heard it talked about a lot, so can you tell what a particle accelerater is?
The ULTIMATE "Boy's Toy" - you get to speed things up real fast, smash them together and just to 'see what happens'!! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

OK, now on to the topic at hand...

RainMan, I am a little confused as to what you are asking. How things move? Well the obvious answer is due to neurons telling our muscles to contract and relax at different instances. We are unaware of the exact processes because it's mostly all instinct. Ever try telling your muscles to go against their training? I tried one of those street exhibititons once where a bycycle is designed to turn its front wheel in exactly the same the opposite direction you would expect he wheel to turn. Bloody difficult and I lost my money... /ttiforum/images/graemlins/cry.gif I could explain muscles more - cells expand/contract based on electrical signals and the internal structure of the cells but I don't think this is the direction you looking at.

Are you in fact looking at the universe in a three dimensional array sort of way? Every point along the 4 dimension - represents a static 3d array where points of the universe will have have certain atoms assigned to them. Your question be, what causes these atoms to move from 'point' to 'point'.

I used to program alot in BASIC so Arrays were always my friend /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

James
 
Good Morning, James! (Although in Hamburg it is already afternoon. Wie gehts heute?)

RainMan, I am a little confused as to what you are asking. How things move?

I guess I am not so much asking as pondering. Maybe I *AM* "baiting"??? :oops: And I'm not talking so much about "how" things move, as I already understand the electro-chem-mechanical activity of our body. I am more interested in "first motives". Where does the intention to set your body in motion emanate from?

I am trying to make a hypothetical connection between the largest energy source in the universe (Dark Energy) and a collective (spiritual?) consciousness. Silly me....I am always trying to look beyond the "easy" answers of established science. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Kind Regards,
RainmanTime
 
Hmm..

What came first? The chicken or the egg? I've always been partial to Chaos Theory's notion of "initial conditions", and they would make a convenient answer as opposed to your assertion of "intention", however it gets sticky when asking what set those conditions. Many birghter men than myself have tried to tackle this argument (Hume, Anslem, Aquinas), and never really worked out a satisfactory solution.

As far as intention goes, I would concur with Hume, in that these private mental events (read:thoughts, or in this case, intentions) are still physical phenomena. For whatever reason (maybe eating a Twinkie elevated your blood sugar... whatever), but some neurotransmitters firing in specific patterns in specific areas of your brain, influenced by a calvalcade of endogenous and exogenous variables caused the "intention" which you credit as the ultimate cause...

Seems like you can regress all the way back to the beginning of the universe with this one.

I'm to lazy to develop it more.

Cheers!
 
I'll quickly side with Siegmund on this one. Biological machines - that's all we are. Running along to our inevitable conclusion...

Gotta run myself - Work is over and I hear beer pouring...

James
 
From Siegmund:
Seems like you can regress all the way back to the beginning of the universe with this one.

Ah! You've revealed my motive! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif Yes, this is kind of the purpose of my pondering.

From James:
Biological machines - that's all we are.

OK, I can certainly accept that. But even biological machines have "inputs", right? We may certainly be self-contained systems, but one can always abstract to a next-higher "supersystem" with which we interface.

Bear with me while I continue my musings & "what if?" thoughts along this line... The physical structure of the human body certainly exhibits the fact that we are axially-oriented beings: Our axis of bilateral symmetry. And there are even strong indications it is a polarized axis: Food goes in one end, comes out the other... thoughts originate on one end and are carried out by manipulators further on down the axis. Would it be plausible to also think of this axis as sort of a dipole antenna? Is it possible that we, the antenna, are capable of not only receiving, but also transmitting information by methods beyond our five senses? Obviously, this train of thought is heading along the lines of ESP and similar purported phenomenon.

What I find intriguing is, if this postulating might be true, this may provide a means for non-local, faster-than-light communications...and may mesh well with the concept of a superfluid as the medium of transferrence.

Whaddya think? Kind Regards,
RainmanTmie
 
Rainman,

While my mastery of physics doesn't extend much farther than the cable properties of neurons and the Na-K pump, your post got me thinking about "quantum pairs"... Know anything about those?
 
Whoa whoa whoa,

so a particle accelerator just moves to particles really fast and lets them smash into eachother?

Mind you it would be really fun to do with stuff, but what does it offer in praticle useages?
 
It seems that everyone completely whizzed over my first posting in this thread when I emphasized:
Why did you place it there on the table in front of you? Because it's in arms reach. The relative distance that it needs to be in comfort proximity. Rather, consider it gravity and the correct spot. Both are so similar and close in time and space that the miraculous event goes un-noticed and un-applauded.

I must firstly mention, beautifully put Zerub and now let me emphasize and add to what you said:
Now add to the mix a little bit of matter (say about a tenth or so) and then "move" upon them to set matter in its proper rotations and, presto, what comes up is a closed-looped system that produces every single kind of matter, space, energy and time.

RM, I do have the answer as to why and where this motion emanates from. It might help to gap that "void" to manifest what you've been missing... Now pay attention!

Take a look here and see what's happening:


fig6b.gif


fig6bl.gif




What is this telling us? That all stars, planets and life really have "NO CHOICE" of where they are born or destined to die because the principles of nature, gravity and the universe are all subject to the growth pattern of the Fibonacci / Golden Mean Spiral pattern. The reason each one of our planets are precisely there is because they were (so to speak) pushed into their position by a law of instructing gravity. We are all subject to this law. Nature shows us this very pattern in animal migration, plants growth, stock market, the food web in the North Atlantic Ocean, the contact process of the spreading of diseases, cycles of freezing and thawing, Global networking, population, building structure, air traffic control, number of runways and regional airlines, electrical power grids, money, taxation, political, pipeline control systems, neural system, cell division of mitosis/meiosis, everything, JUST EVERYTHING! Even as Stalker and Sieg mention it has its connection to the electro-chem-mechanical activity of our body and brain! A good book to read and that shows these graphs, read: Nexus small worlds and the groundbreaking science of networks by Mark Buchanan.

So what I am attempting to convey is that everything has its position and place for a reason, even as chaotic as it may seem. Now, there is a distance associated with all things far and near and the coffee cup that you placed in arms distance on a table. This equals all space in-between and the map (so to speak) in getting there from brain to arm to coffee cup is the Golden Mean Spiral / Fibonacci growth pattern down to a grand unified theory (atoms) that everything spins.

Well, I really don't think I did my best in explaining it? But would you believe me if I told you this is the primordial language! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

And forgive me if I intrude here but I can't resist! RM your house is immaculate and extremely well organized! Everything in its place! What a fetish you have with neatness. This is a rarity in a man! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif Your kitchen is well planed out; you probably have every spice known to Italy. (You like Italian foods). Your computer desk area is well planned out with overlapping accessories with very neutral coloring. They say the key to success is through organization! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Whoa CAT!

Very, VERY interesting! And how synchronistic in its timing! The spiral (not necessarily defined as the GM, but the application is obvious) is the latest model for complex system development that is being embraced by NASA. It is defined as an inward-trending spiral, where each concentric arm represents one iteration of the design cycle, such that you are converging on the center point, which represents the ultimate goal.

And yet, there is also the outward-trending spiral to match, and balance, the inward-trending one. We are currently using the outward-trending spiral to define the boundaries of our operational conceptualizations for how we get to Mars in "baby steps".

I also think this inward-outward balancing act may also be related to Siegmund's point about "quantum pairs", as the two spirals certainly represent the opposite spins of such a quantum pair of particles. I am aware of some of this stuff, Sieg, but the part that still vexes me is the idea of "quantum entanglement" of the two partner particles. What is the medium/mechanism by which the determination of one particle's spin results in the collapse of the wave function at the partner particle? This is what leads me back to the whole concept of a higher-dimensional superfluid as a potential medium for quantum entanglement to occur within.

Well, I really don't think I did my best in explaining it? But would you believe me if I told you this is the primordial language!

Oh yes, I believe you CAT! And as far as explaining it, a picture is still worth a thousand words. Now what needs to occur is comprehension, and this will continue to take place as I study this diagram and doing some mathematical diddling when I get home tonight!

RM your house is immaculate and extremely well organized! Everything in its place! What a fetish you have with neatness. This is a rarity in a man! Your kitchen is well planed out; you probably have every spice known to Italy. (You like Italian foods). Your computer desk area is well planned out with overlapping accessories with very neutral coloring.

Well, CAT, your R-V capabilities are pretty sharp. I do thrive on organization, and at least some level of neatness. I'm not very good at sweeping the hardwood floors as often as I should, given the constant battle with dog hair! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif I just completed my kitchen remodel several months ago, with stainless steel & Corian(tm) being the materials of choice. Italian cuisine is pretty yummy, but I think my fave is Baja Mexican.

Now you've got me motivated to enhance my own R-V skills to get a peek at you!


Kind Regards,
RainmanTime
 
do you suppose (trying not you use "what if") that it might not be the coffee cup that doesn't move but everything else?

You must remeber those old console games where the main character stayed in the center of the screen and the terrian moved around him.

kinda like if you moved yourself out of space and time and just sat on the sidelines until what you wanted came to you and then just popped back into it.
 
According to einsteins theory of relativity when you push an object away from you thats not necessarily whats happening, you and the rest of the universe could be getting pushed away by the object.
 
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