servantx
Timekeeper
You know why did they cancel this tv show, which suppose to be launched for at least one season.
Is This a CIA, Navy Seal Time Traveling Disclosure?
- Thread starter Mylo.X.
- Start date
time tunnel
Timekeeper
But two different time dialation can exist on one object.A object can go faster upwards than it is going forwards.This would
mean it would have to exist in the future and the past simultaneously.
mean it would have to exist in the future and the past simultaneously.
RainmanTime
Timekeeper
Wrong. Time dilation occurs as a result of an object's velocity VECTOR. Do you understand the concept of a vector, and why your treatment of two components of the total velocity VECTOR (upwards, forwards) is scientifically uninformed? Moreover, your statement makes an insinuation that appears to treat velocity as an absolute (i.e. "upwards with respect to what?" or "forwards with respect to what?"). The reality is, time dilation occurs as a result of RELATIVE velocity vector between two different objects. That is the only context within which "time dilation" has any meaning. So again, your statement that two different time dilations can exist on one object is factually incorrect.
And this statement ends up being an incorrect conclusion based on a factually incorrect assumption.
RMT
time tunnel
Timekeeper
Airplains go upwards and forwards all the time.Time dialation can happen in any direction.Do you believe that?According to this definition of velocity vector=A velocity vector represents the rate of change of the position of an object. The magnitude of a velocity vector gives the speed of an object while the vector direction gives its direction. Velocity vectors can be added or subtracted according to the principles of vector addition.The object would have two velocity vectors.
RainmanTime
Timekeeper
Wrong again. Any object only has a single velocity vector. What you are talking about are the scalar components of the total velocity vector. That does not make the scalar components two different velocity vectors. At best, all you can do is change the reference point (reference frame) that you are measuring its velocity vector within. But that is just a change of reference, it is not allowing for a second, unique velocity vector.
RMT
RainmanTime
Timekeeper
BTW, I should give you fair warning that I am a professor of aerospace engineering and have 30 years experience as a practicing aircraft flight controls engineer. If you want to debate airplanes with me, you should be advised where your weaknesses lie as compared to where my strengths lie.
RMT
Einstein
Timekeeper
I think I see what you are trying to say. An object positioned further from a gravitational source will experience a faster flow rate of time. This would be gravitational time dilation. But this time dilation doesn't require motion to exist. Just more altitude. So the arrow of time would be faster with more altitude.
And then there is the time dilation with relative velocity that we are taught about in school. Which is supposed to dilate time in the slower direction with more relative velocity.
So it does appear there are two separate time dilated systems present. But observations show that time dilated systems still exist here in the present.
So your statement that the object would have to exist in the future and the past simultaneously probably isn't correct.
Although it is interesting to think about. It raises the question of whether there is a summation or superposition of the two time dilated states that will produce a third overall time dilated state. Is the third time dilated state what we call the present?
time tunnel
Timekeeper
You could measure the speed of the object as it goes up.While also measuring the speed of the object as it goes forward.If you have two devices on the ground you could do it?So you are saying one of the devices would not measure time dialation.But the other device would measure time dialation.Sorry that really seems wrong to me.The universe does not work that way.Things are logically consistent.
time tunnel
Timekeeper
Has there been any experiments conducted on this to confirm or refute any of what we are talking about?Could you tell me of these experiments?I want some evidence.
Einstein
Timekeeper
time tunnel
Timekeeper
So the test has not been done to measure the time dialation of a object going up and forwards at two different speeds.Measuring the speed and time dialation of the object with two machines on the ground.Which measure the horizontal time dialation and vertical time dialation.That show you no one has consider the problem seriously and pondered it.
- Thread starter
- #112
Mylo.X.
Timekeeper
How on earth can an object move at 2 different speeds at the same time? I am no scientist, and freely admit I'm not scientifically minded, but the notion you propose seems incredulous to my mind.
time tunnel
Timekeeper
Jet engines on the bottom of a aircraft can make it go up and a jet engine on it's back can make it go forwards at the same time.
Someone on yahoo answers asked the question about two vector on one object and it was solved.This is what was typed.
Two vectors acting on a moving object that has a mass of 27kg.One force has a magnitude of 12 N and points due south, while the other force has a magnitude of 17N and points due west,find acceleration of the object?
ARJ WILLIAMS answered 3 years ago
net force = (-17,-12)
net force = mass * acceleration
(-17,-12) = 27 * (x-acceleration,y-acceleration)
(x-acceleration,y-acceleration) = (-17/27,-12/27) = (-0.629629629..., -0.444...)
angle of acceleration = tan^-1 (-0.444.../-0.629629...) = 35.21759 degrees below negative x-axis.
magnitude of acceleration = sqrt((-0.629629...)^2 + (-0.444...)^2) = 0.77069 (5dp)
Someone on yahoo answers asked the question about two vector on one object and it was solved.This is what was typed.
Two vectors acting on a moving object that has a mass of 27kg.One force has a magnitude of 12 N and points due south, while the other force has a magnitude of 17N and points due west,find acceleration of the object?
ARJ WILLIAMS answered 3 years ago
net force = (-17,-12)
net force = mass * acceleration
(-17,-12) = 27 * (x-acceleration,y-acceleration)
(x-acceleration,y-acceleration) = (-17/27,-12/27) = (-0.629629629..., -0.444...)
angle of acceleration = tan^-1 (-0.444.../-0.629629...) = 35.21759 degrees below negative x-axis.
magnitude of acceleration = sqrt((-0.629629...)^2 + (-0.444...)^2) = 0.77069 (5dp)
RainmanTime
Timekeeper
I regret to inform you that your continued mischaracterization of vector kinematics is still wrong. I again tell you that what you are talking about is measuring two of the individual vector COMPONENTS of the total velocity vector. That is all you are talking about. The total velocity vector can be broken down into 3 dimensions (say we use an X-Y-Z reference axis). This is all you are talking about. Call those components Vx, Vy, and Vz. That does not make each of these components its own velocity vector. There is only a SINGLE time dilation due to any body's TOTAL velocity vector.
You can certainly persist in your thought that you are right. But, unfortunately, your misinformed thinking is wrong. Not trying to be mean. Just correct.
No, that is not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is the time dilation does not depend on INDIVIDUAL components of the velocity vector. The time dilation depends only on the TOTAL velocity vector of a body with respect to some other body or some external reference frame. You really need to take a couple of courses on introductory physics at a local university before you will come to grasp why you are incorrect.
It is wrong because you are confusing components of a vector with the total vector itself. Components of the vector matter not to time dilation. There is only one time dilation between a moving body and some other reference, and it is based on the total relative velocity vector between that body and its reference. Period.
You think you understand how the universe works, but your understanding is not even college entry level. Your logic seems consistent because you assume how physics works and you think you understand how the math describes those physics. You do not. But you can continue to insist that your ignorance is not ignorance. But if you ever were to show up in my introductory aerospace engineering course (which relies on knowledge which you have shown you have not yet mastered) you would be troubled by the grade you received from me.
RMT
RainmanTime
Timekeeper
No test has been done like that because scientists understand there is only a single velocity vector. And scientists understand that the contraption you describe is doing nothing more than measuring individual components of that velcity vector. Any scientists running the experiment you suggest will also understand that the components they measure must be resolved into a single velocity vector, with a single magnitude, and that single magnitude determines the time dilation between the moving body and the chosen reference frame.
Or it shows that you are mistaken about your views, and other people understand it better to know that your proposal does not honor the true nature of the velocity vector.
RMT
RainmanTime
Timekeeper
Once again you are only talking about the orthogonal components of a 3-space vector.
Please provide the entire link so all information can be viewed. Now you are confusing FORCE vectors (and certainly you can apply several different FORCES at various points around a body) with the resulting VELOCITY vector. Applying many different FORCES results in a net acceleration (also a vector). But given the body is rigid, that acceleration will be resolved in a SINGLE direction (and yes it can have multiple components, but there is only a single acceleration resultant vector). The time integral of that acceleration vector yields the velocity vector, which also acts along a specific line in 3-D space.
These are force vectors, and they are again setting this problem up as the force vectors are broken down into their orthogonal components. There is still only one, resulting velocity vector.
So what, exactly, do you think this proves about your assertion?
RMT
RainmanTime
Timekeeper
Some links to help your education:
Four-velocity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Velocity Vector and its Components
The time dilation ONLY depends upon the MAGNITUDE of the TOTAL VELOCITY VECTOR between a moving body and its chosen reference frame of motion.
RMT
Four-velocity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Velocity Vector and its Components
The time dilation ONLY depends upon the MAGNITUDE of the TOTAL VELOCITY VECTOR between a moving body and its chosen reference frame of motion.
RMT
time tunnel
Timekeeper
So you are saying you can`t have a velocity vector for a object that is moving in some cases.
RainmanTime
Timekeeper
Is that what you think I said? Because I don't know how you got that out of what I said. Do I need to quote what I actually said, or would you like to quote it and ask questions about it? I mean, I am a teacher. I am used to answering questions.
RMT
RainmanTime
Timekeeper
