Re: BREAKFAST PHYSICS: Fundamental or Foundational
Yep, thanks a milla!
This was not intended to be ‘long’ but here am I posting a lengthy one!!! Please could you kindly bear the ‘lengthiness’?
Kindly note that I have not indeed ‘proven anything’ here but mere presented a ‘quiz’ for the house to probe. Remember its still “under heavy constructionâ€.
Now, †For all its worthâ€: did you read the subject at all before attempting to ‘contribute’ or you decided to take a calculated detour to embellish your ‘knowledge’? Great tact there… However, fact is: you may be actually right with your statement (for I have not taken quality time to scrutinize them) -and I do not say that you are neither: because the reason for this post was not to treat… that.
Again, have you looked well as the basic reason for this post? Please do. Was actually expecting you to discuss “Fundamental Units†and their ‘relative existential precedence(s) ’ and not delve into the ‘esoterics’ of issues like “What is Time?â€
And if you want to discuss “time†please navigate here :
http://www.timetravelinstitute.com/ttiforum/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=ttclaims&Number=44830&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=2
And help me out – and I would be profoundly grateful. Added the last comment because I like this beautiful statement of your:
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TIME = MATTER/MOTION = (dm/dt)/(dx/dt) = dm/dx
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However the portion:
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(dm/dt)/(dx/dt) = dm/dx
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Looks VERY common and lame….Or whad do you dhink?
Just saw this and pretty caught my interest as well:
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Think it is also clear that all measures of ENERGY are triplex-composite metrics of mass, space, and time. Energy is therefore an integrated metric of our (defined) 3 FUNDAMENTAL MEASURES.
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Please could you possibly back this statement up with some empirical facts? Perhaps your own?-and kindly try to differentiate ‘energy’ like Force* Distance from raw energy like that inherently found in the cores of active stars (Fortunately (or fortunately (?)) I have delved more into this below).
And peradventure you respond, please try to evolve your argument logically and please; you may not stumble upon this post as well.
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This segment had been added while our ‘efficient’ electricity supply denied me electricity to power up my Pc
.
At this point, I will attempt to succinctly describe from scratch ‘new’ reason(s) for what I suggested in the other post . So here we go…
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Before there could be ‘anything’; at the very least there should of necessity be ‘nothingness’. If [this] ‘nothingness’ can be perceived: then it exists. And if it exists, then it of necessity must occupy location: Space-even if this is a singularity.
Now if space exists, then it surely must have a ‘here’ and a ‘there’. If that obtains, then we have in our hands a ‘space’ with an expanse. That expanse we know equates to a VOLUME
So, we can preliminarily conclude here,that SPACE has an inherent inseparable and native property: volume.
Now we may decide to ask:
“What is VOLUME in terms of our Derived Units?â€:
(Length)*(Breath) * (Height) = = (L*L*L) --all LENGTHS!
Then what next…?:
Because we assumed we have a ‘here’ and a ‘there’ ALREADY then a DISTANCE by implication exists. (Even without motion or dynamics, this exists as is: STATIC (and also is allowed to be abstract))
Now if DYNAMICS sets in, a gradient (Length) had ALREADY set in BEFORE. This gradient is caused by POTENTIAL CONTRAST (Energy contrast). (May apply to latent energy contrast as well!).
So as you can see, energy must come in FIRST as (perhaps) a CONTRAST in POTENTIAL: Gradient; Location Difference; Length.
But this energy will NEVER be observed UNLESS it acts on ‘something’ that can show its EFFECTS [of existence].Now, that ‘something’ is an object we arbitrarily choose here to be “MASSâ€. Note that we have not incorporated the concept of TIME at all because INTELLIGENCE has not set in [amongst other things], neither is there even [Observable/measurable] MOTION or [Observable/measurable] EVENTS.
So to ever ‘observe’ MOTION, we require a POTENTIAL acting on a mass.
Subsequently, taking stock at this juncture:We have basic INGREDIENTS for a physical system such that existence has a precedence level:
L >E > M…..(1)
Where above, L = Length, E = Energy, M =Mass
So, the element of TIME may now be “factored into the equation†since we want (actually desire) to involve DYNAMICS (events).However note that the ingredients in (1) above exist without the existence of the parameter TIME …In essence they CAN EXIST alone outside the DEFINES and EFFECTS of Time: they are INDEPENDENT of it if necessary. They can even exist outside events/dynamics/change in this conceptualization.
If according to your treatise you must insist that MATTER =dm/dt, we don’t even have this parameter ‘TIME’ here at this point to start with.
Anyway, note also that even SPACE could be an object…
Consider this:
Is it impossible to conceptualize that mass (perhaps energy) pervades the entire known [and unknown] existence and that even ‘space’ itself is an OBJECT [comprised of ‘something’ like Energy?]
When I refer to ENERGY I am not talking about things like Force*Distance [i.e. “Workâ€]: which is an OBSERVED EFFECT of the EXISTENCE of Energy; or, is this WORK not an observed TRANSLATION of the EFFECT of energy to our spatial and cognitive recognition and understanding? This translation is NOT energy ITSELF (Please correct me).
I will use the following lines to make some points; therefore I consider the diversion necessary.
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(Please I will be typing exponential expressions in linear patterns in the following lines basically because I am not acquainted with using this forum’s interface to express mathematical elements using Exponential/Power notation)
[Then brings me back to your response/ttiforum/images/graemlins/devil.gif Maybe when you refer to ENERGY in your
post :
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I think it is also clear that all measures of ENERGY are triplex-composite metrics of mass, space, and time. Energy is therefore an integrated metric of our (defined) 3 FUNDAMENTAL MEASURES.
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You refer to something like:
KINETIC ENERGY being mathematically:
1/2Mass*Velocity (Power) 2 ? …… (01)
That is; where:
Velocity = distance/ time = L/T …… (02)
So that placing (02) in (01) above we get
1/2MV (Power)2 = 1/2 M (L/T)Power(2) ……..(002)
Composed of the three fundamental [derived] units: Mass (M), Length (L) and Time (T)?
Or again perhaps; you used the parameter WORK [as equal to ENERGY] instead:
WORK = Force*Distance …..(03)
But
Force = Mass * Acceleration …. (04)
And
Acceleration = (Velocity/Time)…. (05)
In any case;
Velocity = Distance/Time …. (06)
Now, from (06); intending to break all down into Fundamental Units’ notation and doing some ‘few’ substitutions:
Velocity = Distance/Time = L/T ….(07)
Substituting (07) into ()5) we obtain:
Acceleration = (Velocity/Time) = ((L/T)/T) ………………….. (08)
Again, substituting (08) into (04) we obtain:
Force = Mass * Acceleration = Mass * ((L/T)/T) = M*(((L/T)/T) )…(09)
Now, finally putting (09) into (03)
Work = Force*Distance = M*(((L/T)/T) ) * Distance …(010)
Which equals:
Work = M*(((L/T)/T) ) * L….(011)
Now as we can see in (011) above (as well (002) that work (which like energy is also measured in joules) in Derived Units notation contain all the Fundamental Units.
[Again] is that why you have surmised:
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I think it is also clear that all measures of ENERGY are triplex-composite metrics of mass, space, and time. Energy is therefore an integrated metric of our (defined) 3 FUNDAMENTAL MEASURES.
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If that is the reason then I will have to become more convinced that it will HOLD TRUE in DESCRIBING the real nature of UNITS!
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In any case I will quickly continue with the evolution of my statements
Now Time:
Note that the concept of MEASUREMENT coupled with the requirement of TIME arises as soon as MOTION sets in: the need to quantize the RATE at which an object’s (Mass?) LOCATION COINCIDES with another KNOWN location. Note the word: KNOWN: There must needs be a KNOWN parameter BEFORE ‘time’ may be determined. OBSERVATION is required BEFORE the KNOWN can be called ’known’. In few words ‘Time’ is an ‘afterthought’ for convenience/meaning of intelligence.
So how do we evolve ‘time’? I expect it to be like follows:
1. We have a known CONSTANT object (MASS, ENERGY) with KNOWN CONSTANT LOCATION CHANGE (Motion).
2. You calculate the RATE of your own LOCAL CHANGE against that object’s own LOCATION (Length, motion) CHANGE(S).
So as you may already begin to see, Time depends ULTIMATELY ON ‘LOCATIONAL’ RATIOS, which in turn (i.e. the ratios) must as well be observable (MEASURABLE) .
In order for the ratios to be observable in turn, it must have a FORM (mass if you like).And for that MASS to be even variable in location, a gradient (Potential variation (Energy)) must exist inside a space [volume]: Volume= L*L*L
So
L>E>M>T
I could probe a bit deeper if allowed but I must allow you to comment.