Pre-allocated vacuum chambers required to travel back in time

[AuditorMaterial]

One of the problems I have seen with all of the popular time travel movies is that time travelers' destination-time points are always conveniently void of physical obstacles. In the movie Time Machine, the time traveler never exits inside of a building, or in the same physical space occupied by a tree, bird, fly, or in the middle of a bulkhead (Philadelphia Experiment-esque horror story style). Wouldn't one absolutely need, in order to safely travel either back or forward in time, a pre-allocated vacuum chamber to exit into, to ensure they land safely? This begs the question, isn't it only truly safe to travel back in time to a point after time travel is created. Upon creation of time travel technology, or at least in the years leading up to it, assuming the development process spans years, the time traveler would need to allocate safe spaces to exit. While a rigidly controlled vault could suffice initially, provided the traveler had a means to quietly exit without being noticed, could work as an interim solution, a fail-safe environment developed "shortly" before deployment would be ideal.

 

[titorite]

I think thats where a dual singularity comes in. In theory , as it leaves on reality it would leave a void that would immediately be filled in by atmosphere... Upon destination arrival water ever matter it arrived into would be destroyed by singularity. Then dissipation of the dual singularity bubble would let whatever was inside drop... thus the need for a strong suspension.... IN theory.

 

[AuditorMaterial]

I think thats where a dual singularity comes in. In theory , as it leaves on reality it would leave a void that would immediately be filled in by atmosphere... Upon destination arrival water ever matter it arrived into would be destroyed by singularity. Then dissipation of the dual singularity bubble would let whatever was inside drop... thus the need for a strong suspension.... IN theory.

That's all well and good as long as the bubble isn't inside of a fuel truck passing by, which would explode, destroying the time traveler immediately upon dropping in, or in front of the moving truck, which would crush the arriving time traveler, etc. Safe arrival locations are ideal. Astronauts accept their missions in full knowledge of the risks, but one is obliged to minimize risks whenever possible, where the whenever here refers to times after time machine technology. Going farther back prior to creation of safe drop points is risky in that respect, as well as increased resultant divergence

 

[titorite]

Consider the poor sap that might get caught in an arrival field. Yeaup... It is a risky venture. Not worth all the other theoretical problems unless absolutely undeniably no other way. Item retrieval is about all it's good for. Or so I read.

 

[seivtcho]

Wоw people, I have never thought, that the time travelers' destination-time points could be inside of an obstacle. You know what? The air can be an obstacle too. If an air goes in your blood vessels, it can make air embolism and you my die from heart or brain attack. The idea for a vacuum chamber, that to ensure a safely landing is logical.

"Upon destination arrival what ever matter it arrived into would be destroyed by singularity. Then dissipation of the dual singularity bubble would let whatever was inside drop... thus the need for a strong suspension.... IN theory."
If this is only a theory, then does this mean, that a vacuum chamber should exist "just in case"?

 

[AuditorMaterial]

Wоw people, I have never thought, that the time travelers' destination-time points could be inside of an obstacle. You know what? The air can be an obstacle too. If an air goes in your blood vessels, it can make air embolism and you my die from heart or brain attack. The idea for a vacuum chamber, that to ensure a safely landing is logical.

"Upon destination arrival what ever matter it arrived into would be destroyed by singularity. Then dissipation of the dual singularity bubble would let whatever was inside drop... thus the need for a strong suspension.... IN theory."
If this is only a theory, then does this mean, that a vacuum chamber should exist "just in case"?

A vacuum chamber is an operating standard that exceeds requirements in its strictness. Nothing enters, and is hence potentially destroyed. Remember, there is no way to know exactly WHEN a traveler would drop, so maintaining a tightly controlled environment is a conservative method to limit losses. And obviously, presuming an entire living human can be teleported, a reservation data packet and confirmation data packet could both be sent before the human jump to ensure the chamber is unoccupied at the desired drop time.

 

[AuditorMaterial]

then upon drop, the chamber would be pressurized, but not for the sake of the traveler, but to permit hatch opening, pressurization is not technically necessary for the traveler as the heat of the singularity would require a protective suit to be worn during jumps, which would have an oxygen supply

 

[Darby]

Auditor,

Good job on thinking about practical problems.

If we make the assumption that the frames of reference of "now" and "then" are roughly the same over time if we are time traveling to and from this planet only and we also assume that all of the laws of physics remain the same (a very good idea) I can imagine some other issues that are equally problematic.

Let's imagine that our time traveler wants to go from December 2014 to D-Day, June 6th, 1944 to have a look at a historical event. In order to orient ourselves to our local frame of reference we'll look down on the solar system from above the Earth North Pole. We can then call movement to our right as "east" and movement to our left as "west."

In December, as we look down on the Earth, we see it moving anti-clockwise to our right (east) with an orbital velocity of +30 km/sec. That's when our time traveler leaves for June 6th, 1944. Our assumption that all physical laws remain the same implies that our time traveler must carry along with him a linear velocity of +30 km/sec with respect to the frame of reference.

He arrives at June 6th, 1944. Earth, in June is ~180 degrees further along it's orbit than in December. From our top down perspective it is moving at -30 km/sec (west). If the laws of physics hold our time traveler will either splat into the Earth at ~60 km/sec (about 1.3 million miles per hour) or skim along the atmosphere. If his mass remains at about 1000 kg (vehicle, components and passenger) he'll auger in with a kinetic energy of ~.4 kT TNT equivalent (a small tactical nuke) or, if he skims the atmosphere, be seen on Earth as a very bright meteor.

[I didn't quite pick 1000 kg from the air. One would-be time traveler here claimed that his gadget weighed in at 500 lbs (~225 kg) and his vehicles was a Chevy pick-up (~1000 kg).]

In the above example I purposely chose to make the problem obvious. The problem really isn't solved if we leave on June 6th 2014 and arrive on June 6th 1944. The orbital mechanics of just the Earth-Moon system are so complex that we really can't predict the exact location of the Moon through direct computation. Predicting the exact location of the Earth in 1944 from 2014 given the Earth-Moon-Sun-Saturn-Jupiter system is a huge problem. Even if we are extremely accurate and the gadget only hits the Earth at 20 meters/sec it is still a big problem for the gadget and its contents.

Time travel, if possible may well require advanced space travel. One might have to travel to the general vicinity, arriving in space, accelerate to match the target's velocity and then land.

 

[AuditorMaterial]

Auditor,

Good job on thinking about practical problems.

If we make the assumption that the frames of reference of "now" and "then" are roughly the same over time if we are time traveling to and from this planet only and we also assume that all of the laws of physics remain the same (a very good idea) I can imagine some other issues that are equally problematic.

Let's imagine that our time traveler wants to go from December 2014 to D-Day, June 6th, 1944 to have a look at a historical event. In order to orient ourselves to our local frame of reference we'll look down on the solar system from above the Earth North Pole. We can then call movement to our right as "east" and movement to our left as "west."

In December, as we look down on the Earth, we see it moving anti-clockwise to our right (east) with an orbital velocity of +30 km/sec. That's when our time traveler leaves for June 6th, 1944. Our assumption that all physical laws remain the same implies that our time traveler must carry along with him a linear velocity of +30 km/sec with respect to the frame of reference.

He arrives at June 6th, 1944. Earth, in June is ~180 degrees further along it's orbit than in December. From our top down perspective it is moving at -30 km/sec (west). If the laws of physics hold our time traveler will either splat into the Earth at ~60 km/sec (about 1.3 million miles per hour) or skim along the atmosphere. If his mass remains at about 1000 kg (vehicle, components and passenger) he'll auger in with a kinetic energy of ~.4 kT TNT equivalent (a small tactical nuke) or, if he skims the atmosphere, be seen on Earth as a very bright meteor.

[I didn't quite pick 1000 kg from the air. One would-be time traveler here claimed that his gadget weighed in at 500 lbs (~225 kg) and his vehicles was a Chevy pick-up (~1000 kg).]

Time travel, if possible may well require advanced space travel. One might have to travel to the general vicinity, arriving in space, accelerate to match the target's velocity and then land.

. Yes indeed, and let's not forget the donut-shaped corkscrew path our planet is tracing out (akin to a French Kruller) when one includes our sun's path in the galaxy

 

[Darby]

Auditor,

Good reply.

BTW: I was in the middle of editing the original post when you copied and replied. Sry.

 

[AuditorMaterial]

Auditor,

Good job on thinking about practical problems.

If we make the assumption that the frames of reference of "now" and "then" are roughly the same over time if we are time traveling to and from this planet only and we also assume that all of the laws of physics remain the same (a very good idea) I can imagine some other issues that are equally problematic.

Let's imagine that our time traveler wants to go from December 2014 to D-Day, June 6th, 1944 to have a look at a historical event. In order to orient ourselves to our local frame of reference we'll look down on the solar system from above the Earth North Pole. We can then call movement to our right as "east" and movement to our left as "west."

In December, as we look down on the Earth, we see it moving anti-clockwise to our right (east) with an orbital velocity of +30 km/sec. That's when our time traveler leaves for June 6th, 1944. Our assumption that all physical laws remain the same implies that our time traveler must carry along with him a linear velocity of +30 km/sec with respect to the frame of reference.

He arrives at June 6th, 1944. Earth, in June is ~180 degrees further along it's orbit than in December. From our top down perspective it is moving at -30 km/sec (west). If the laws of physics hold our time traveler will either splat into the Earth at ~60 km/sec (about 1.3 million miles per hour) or skim along the atmosphere. If his mass remains at about 1000 kg (vehicle, components and passenger) he'll auger in with a kinetic energy of ~.4 kT TNT equivalent (a small tactical nuke) or, if he skims the atmosphere, be seen on Earth as a very bright meteor.

[I didn't quite pick 1000 kg from the air. One would-be time traveler here claimed that his gadget weighed in at 500 lbs (~225 kg) and his vehicles was a Chevy pick-up (~1000 kg).]

In the above example I purposely chose to make the problem obvious. The problem really isn't solved if we leave on June 6th 2014 and arrive on June 6th 1944. The orbital mechanics of just the Earth-Moon system are so complex that we really can't predict the exact location of the Moon through direct computation. Predicting the exact location of the Earth in 1944 from 2014 given the Earth-Moon-Sun-Saturn-Jupiter system is a huge problem. Even if we are extremely accurate and the gadget only hits the Earth at 20 km/sec it is still a big problem for the gadget and its contents.

Time travel, if possible may well require advanced space travel. One might have to travel to the general vicinity, arriving in space, accelerate to match the target's velocity and then land.

Again, excluding the problem of increased divergence, deeper jumps have the added problem of the naturally occurring but difficult to precisely predict gravitational field permutations that induce orbital eccentricities making it extremely difficult to accurately calculate a tightly constrained drop location's EXACT 3-dimensional location within space as we go farther back or forward in time. Small steps are much safer, even a succession of small jumps compared to a single jump of the same cumulative time differential. The topic of cost has came up, and considering the enormous expense, as well as additional risks of space travel, it seems optimal to just task to the computers with solving the calculations needed to make the series of small jumps. A significant reduction of constraints could be introduced by having the machine equipped with a parachute, thus giving a significantly larger 3-D space that is an acceptable drop location (or region here) within our atmosphere. A twist on "strong suspension" idea.

 

[AuditorMaterial]

Auditor,

Good reply.

BTW: I was in the middle of editing the original post when you copied and replied. Sry.

I thought I hadn't read the Jupiter comment before when I started commenting on the same thing. Can one presume to say that great minds think alike?

 

[seivtcho]

Can all of these problems be solved by going in the space for a destination point?

The space is a vacuum, when you rush there with a high speed, you will not burn, gravitational field is not that important.

The time traveler appears in the space with his spaceship, rushes some distance in the space, stops the ship, goes back to the earth, finds its location and lands.

 

[titorite]

Even in space their is a risk, Stray space dust, asteroids, artificial probes, it is a remote chance but still a chance. The only true way to have a measure of safety is to have something like a singularity that will destroy whatever matter and space is already there ,supplanting that area it arrives into with it's own... Like the time travel bubbles shown in the terminator movies.

 

[seivtcho]

Wait a minute, people. This problem may not be preasent depending on the method, that will be used for time traveling. One of the methods for time travel in the future can be traveling with a super high speeds. In this case when the traveller come in the new time, (s)he will simply slow down the speed and will land politely as the airplanes today land. The obsticle will simply be avoided.