Immortality through time travel

[seivtcho]

I don't think I'd ever wish to be immortal. There's a natural balance in the universe; people are born and people die. It seems Earth would have one hell of a population problem (even more so) if humans were immortal. We all just need to make the most with the time we have.Besides, what a great adventure death might be.

Good God man.... do you realize the implications that has to the words.."till death do us part."!! As if it wasn't hard enough now.

Exactly!

This is not correct. The overpopulation and the natural balance are problems of the uncontrolled birth rate, not the length of the life. To be understood, I will give an example. If all the people now become immortal, and no new children are born from now on, there will be space for everyone. Opposite, today the countries with the lowest average life span contribute the most for the overpopulation, because they multiply uncontrollably and have sometimes more than 10 children.

"till death do us part." is not correct either. People divorce, get married again, say single for a long time, change lovers, etc. Very few people are "till death do us part." and exactly they don't mind that.

I thought it was commonly understood that only those of us with time travel technology would reap the benefits of longevity through time travel.

I am collecting information for the people, who want to become immortal if the time travel works out. Join in. Everyone is welcome. Sooner or later the time travel technology will go to the public. Furthermore, exactly our children or grand children may be the inventors of the time machine. All the other people think, that time travel is impossible and may categorize us all in this forum as psychos. Our grand grand grand .... children may come to immortalize us, only because it will be we who know, that time travel is a real science.

Insurance won't pay for it. Only the rich and medicaid patients will have access to it. Middle class will be screwed, as usual.

This will be in the beginning. After that the cost will drop. This is for everything in the medicine.

 

[Wicked]

"If all people now become immortal and no new children are born from now on, there will be space for everyone"? To me, that's a terrible thing, and very selfish. There won't be room for everyone, only the ones who are immortal. Stopping children from being born is absolutely disturbing the natural balance of the universe.

Although I agree that people should limit their reproducing and only have as many children as they can take care of, I'd never agree that no new children should be born all for the sake of anyone's immortality.

 

[seivtcho]

"If all people now become immortal and no new children are born from now on, there will be space for everyone"? To me, that's a terrible thing, and very selfish. There won't be room for everyone, only the ones who are immortal. Stopping children from being born is absolutely disturbing the natural balance of the universe.Although I agree that people should limit their reproducing and only have as many children as they can take care of, I'd never agree that no new children should be born all for the sake of anyone's immortality.

In my thoughts only those people, who choose to be forever young will not have children. All who want to be mortal and don't mind to die, can have as many children as they "can take care of". You simply do not like the idea to be immortal and you prefer to die from aging. Certainly it is your way of thinking and I don't have anything against that. Have as many children as you "can take care of". You simply will not be immortal. It is simply about a protection against overpopulation. Certainly, if you have some other idea, please, share it.

 

[Dizzie]

...Yup, I also find it unfortunate, but this is the blame of their parents, who multiply uncontrollably. It is not possible for one African country, which can feed for example 5 million people to have 50 million population. How do you think, that there will be no hunger for the children in this country, since the same resources has to be distributed to 10 times more people? Imagine your food to become 10 times more expensive, or you to need to eat 10 times less. This is a starvation in a mass scale, produced by a local overpopulation, the blame for which is to the population, that grow uncontrollably.

I need to respond to this one, Seivtcho . I find that laying blame in this situation accomplishes little. You almost seem content in your comments to allow to children to starve, when they are not responsible for their plight. I am a believer that children and the defenseless need to be protected by society, even from their own parents' decisions and actions.
As far as any preventative approach, I would suggest that educational programs about family planning work better than legality. Laws in China do curb overpopulation, but at the cost of some dire unintended consequences.

 

[seivtcho]

I need to respond to this one, Seivtcho . I find that laying blame in this situation accomplishes little. You almost seem content in your comments to allow to children to starve, when they are not responsible for their plight. I am a believer that children and the defenseless need to be protected by society, even from their own parents' decisions and actions.As far as any preventative approach, I would suggest that educational programs about family planning work better than legality. Laws in China do curb overpopulation, but at the cost of some dire unintended consequences.

Absolutely agree about China. They started to control their population growth. The starving children is something really disturbing. This is why the African countries have also to control their population. I am not for the idea the children to starve. I am for change, that to make the uncontrolled human multiplication to slow down. Unfortunately, you can't feed all of the hungry children. No one so far managed.

 

[Wicked]

In my thoughts only those people, who choose to be forever young will not have children. All who want to be mortal and don't mind to die, can have as many children as they "can take care of". You simply do not like the idea to be immortal and you prefer to die from aging. Certainly it is your way of thinking and I don't have anything against that. Have as many children as you "can take care of". You simply will not be immortal. It is simply about a protection against overpopulation. Certainly, if you have some other idea, please, share it.

So who makes the rule that if you want to be immortal, you can't have children? I instead think we can be immortal in a sense that we pass our knowledge and wisdom to our children.

 

[Dizzie]

So who makes the rule that if you want to be immortal, you can't have children? I instead think we can be immortal in a sense that we pass our knowledge and wisdom to our children.

Wicked, perhaps what Sievtcho means is that he predicts that immortal beings would likely choose not to procreate by and large. This phenomenon could even work somewhat hand in hand with your view of progeny as a means of furthering one's own existence.
Coincidentally, I think the view you expressed is somewhat of a traditional Jewish belief as well, from what I understand.

 

[Wicked]

Wicked, perhaps what Sievtcho means is that he predicts that immortal beings would likely choose not to procreate by and large. This phenomenon could even work somewhat hand in hand with your view of progeny as a means of furthering one's own existence.Coincidentally, I think the view you expressed is somewhat of a traditional Jewish belief as well, from what I understand.

Well, thank you for trying to help clarify for me. I'm always interested in other's point of view.As for Jewish beliefs, I wouldn't know much about that.

 

[seivtcho]

I have been thinking actually for many ways in which the immortal people will not contribute to the overpopulation of the planet. The one, that I shared with you (lets name it "No children for the immortals") is the most socially acceptable, that I managed to think of. Many other options exist. Another not so drastic option for the immortals is they to have only up to 2 children, by thus doubling their number, which strategy has to be combined with avoiding uncontrollably multiplying people to become immortal. There can be also an option for new children to be born in case of death of some of the immortals. The new child will be genetic offspring of the death immortal (it sounds crazy, but it is not this impossible). The immortals will pull it off. They will have all the time to develop the tactics and the technology, that they need.

By the way this conversation started to go somewhat off-topic. I started it mainly in order to generate a database of people, who want to be immortalized from eventual future time travelers. The more people hold the database, and the more give it to their future generations, the bigger the chances are for the database to reach further in time, when immortality and time traveling will be possible (if the both are possible, ofcorse). Furthermore, if we manage to come together as some sort of community, we may also do other things, such as to further develop together the theory of how this to happen, or to crowd - fund (by volunteer funding) some time traveling or immortality technology, or maybe we will be able to do something else, that you may suggest. Being in such a list is similar with the cryonics. There are people, who are paying huge money to be frozen and refrozen back, when the immortality becomes possible. The option, that I am offering you is for free. I don't charge anyone for being in my list.

 

[Dizzie]

Neat idea, siev. Kind of like what we would call an "Advance Medical Directive" here in the U.S., but written for future generations.

 

[seivtcho]

Thanks What exactly mean "Titorific"?

 

[Cosmo]

Thanks What exactly mean "Titorific"?

LOL, it's just a play on words. It combines the word Terrific with Titor - Just another way to say "that's awesome time travel stuff".

 

[seivtcho]

OK

 

[vodkafan]

This is not correct. The overpopulation and the natural balance are problems of the uncontrolled birth rate, not the length of the life. To be understood, I will give an example. If all the people now become immortal, and no new children are born from now on, there will be space for everyone. Opposite, today the countries with the lowest average life span contribute the most for the overpopulation, because they multiply uncontrollably and have sometimes more than 10 children..

A very similar approach is explored in the Jack Vance novel Clarges (AKA To Live Forever). Immortality becomes like a pyramid selling scheme; only a very very few gain immortality. The rest of the people in the pyramid struggle all their lives to earn it. It dominates and controls their existence.
Seivtcho, what a terrible world that would be that allowed no new children to be born.

 

[seivtcho]

vodkafan, I am sorry to inform you, that this novel is not a scientific book, and Jack Vanceis not a scientist. The immortality technology will be as everything else in the medicine - expensive first, cheap later. So are today some of the anti - cancer drugs. After 20 - 30 years they will cost pocket money.

 

[seivtcho]

Hello all again

I decided to revive that topic.

Plus I am still gathering people, who want to be immortlizedin the future, in case that the time travel works out.

 

[Debra]

I do think you may alter your views on the soul after you experience an out of body experience for yourself.

Yes, I've given a lot of thought about imortibility due to time travel and my opinion is that yes its possible but I wouldn't want this, it would be very lonely out living friends and family

 

[seivtcho]

Sooner or later you will loose your familly familly and friends anyway. Why not being revived after your death?

 

[Cosmo]

it would be very lonely out living friends and family

You don't get just one set of friends or family - The longer you live, the more of those you'd accumulate.

 

[timecore]

This could solve the overpopulation problem.

You could make it the law that the offspring of immortal people had to go live in outerspace.They could live on other planets in spaceships and asteroids. And when that gets too full.Make more matter by taking the past matter of materials for food and to build things.Then putting that in the same time to make more planets,more stars and spaceships to live on.