Is the Earth stationary, or does it revolve around the sun?

[seivtcho]

... I personally have no problem with the earth being at the center of the universe. Since the "center" of the universe is indeterminable, any point is as good as any other. ?

I already wrote about that in previous answers of this topic. This according to me is the trick, that this particular pseudo science relies on. The entire story for the entire universe rotating around the earth, smells of religious propaganda from its beginning to its end, as a rotten fish will smell if someone puts it in your car. Unfortunately, I am not a skilled enough scientist or investigator to prove it.

 

[Darby]

Is the Earth Stationary or is it Revolving around the Sun?

Are we actually having this "debate"? Really?
Michio Kaku was recently lamenting the fact that at City College of New York the physics department had at that time exactly ZERO American born PhD candidates. Nationwide only 15% of physics PhD candidates are American born. He said the US education system is turning out functional idiots with respect to science.

And here we are, mostly Americans, having a debate on an issue that was resolved over 400 years ago. There's nothing to debate.

Shhhhhh. It's a secret but we've actually looked at the solar system from space! Space far, far away from Earth. Does the Sun revolve around the Earth, indeed. <sigh>

So here's a better question: In a geocentric system, as viewed from the Earth frame, please explain with precision the retrograde motion of [non-Earth] planetary orbits. If you succeed be prepared to receive your Nobel Prize. You will have simultaneously proven Einstein wrong, disproved virtually every conservation law of physics, disproved all three of Newtons laws of motion and will be able to shout, "Hidebound reactionary!" with no Baez Crank Index penalty.

Well...before that Nobel comes you'll probably be asked to provide an entire set of physical laws to replace Classical Mechanics , Special and General Relativity.

 

[Einstein]

Are we actually having this "debate"? Really?

Yes, we are having this debate. There is data to show both points of view are equally valid. So it's really not an either or scenario. It's both.
I might point out that a laser gyro uses the stationary reference frame that makes the Earth appear to be the center of the universe.

 

[Darby]

Yes, we are having this debate. There is data to show both points of view are equally valid. So it's really not an either or scenario. It's both.

Point for Dr. Kaku.
You can counter Dr. Kaku's point (which is approaching match point) by explaining the retrograde motion of the planets.

 

[RainmanTime]

I might point out that a laser gyro uses the stationary reference frame that makes the Earth appear to be the center of the universe.

Whoever got you to believe that little fallacy must have really done a number on you. The gyro itself is based on rate interferometry, and therefore has no preferred reference whatsoever.
RMT

 

[Einstein]

Whoever got you to believe that little fallacy must have really done a number on you. The gyro itself is based on rate interferometry, and therefore has no preferred reference whatsoever.
RMT

You have no idea what you are talking about. Or you are deliberately lying. It doesn't make any difference to me. You have never added anything constructive to a debate so far. You're just a troll. Nothing new there. So stay out of the thread.

 

[RainmanTime]

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Unfortunately, especially in this area I know exactly what I am talking about. And this one is even more laughable than your attempted explanation of how a mechanical gyro works.

So stay out of the thread.

Now why would I want to do that? You can always report this to Cosmo. Let him decide.
RMT

 

[Darby]

Yuh know Ray, I think we can resolve this problem. We set up a manned mission to Mars, see. We put 'ol einsatein in the capsule and in all of our calculations we make Earth the semi stationary center of the "solar" system, see. Then we launch 'im.

In so doing we can resolve the issue of two threads, actually. We'll give einstein an all-day sucker and pack a him a large lunch because he's going to be on this trip to Mars for a "while". In so doing we resolve the issue of this thread: Earth is obviously not the center of the solar system. In the bonus round we also get to resolve the issue of "does infinity exist" because that's how long it will take for him to arrive on Mars. (Apologies to einstein for the sucker and lunch...they aren't infinite.)

Oh, wait! Crap! You mean that when we launch "things" into space we have to know the actual angular orbital velocity of both the launch site and target if we actually want to hit the target? Someone...Kepler?...worked our orbital mechanics 400 years ago? Damn. ?

Yikes! A body (the Sun) with a mass of 2x10^30 kg orbits about a central object (Earth) that only has a mass of 6x10^24 kg, i.e. the object that is 333,000 times more massive orbits the Earth at a distance of almost 100 million miles?

Kaku is correct. Every village has an idiot and America is raising up a whole lot of villages. And I think that there's more than one idiot per village.

There's equal evidence for both arguments, indeed. Gawd almighty help us all. We are doomed.

 

[seivtcho]

It is not the village idiots. The problem is much harder to be resolved. It is the religion making a crusade against the science. You can't even imagine what nonsenses are being tried to be established as an official science. There are scientists, who are propagating, that the Earth is flat, it is only several thousand years old, and it is impossible to be millions of years old, the evolution didn't happen at all, the radio carbon test for dating objects is not a correct measurement, but is a scientific mistake, the dinosaurs never existed, and as you see from this topic, that the Earth is the center of the universe, and the universe is obviously rotating around it. In order all this crap to be proven, is being used fake science, very carefully and systematically build from each possible thing of each possible science, that is hard to be proven, or is impossible to be proven in the current moment, and on these bases is being developed further in a pervert way an entire fake science, from actual scientists, who either starve from absence of money, or have absolutely no scientific moral and very plausably are being payed from some religious organizations to do this soup with shits.

It is far beyond the capabilities of an ordinary idiot to do such a developed and misleading scientific junk. We are talking here for guided, carefully developed, intentional misleading pseudo science, build only for the purpose to show, that God exists, and everything written in the bible, including the dumbest thing is an undisprovable fact.

 

[Darby]

It is not the village idiots. The problem is much harder to be resolved. It is the religion making a crusade against the science. You can't even imagine what nonsenses are being tried to be established as an official science. There are scientists, who are propagating, that the Earth is flat, it is only several thousand years old, and it is impossible to be millions of years old, the evolution didn't happen at all, the radio carbon test for date... [snip for brevity]

There are no scientists proposing that the world is flat. There are people, like "Doctor" David Anderson for example, who falsely claim to be scientists and make such silly statements. There are Village Idiots who don't know any better who accept that the person is a scientist. But there are no real scientists making such asinine claims.
Religion, in general, isn't making an assault on science. Politics is making the assault. It is the US education system that is more interested in political indoctrination than education that is making the assault. Your average K-12 teacher in the US can't solve even the most basic algebra problem, can't tell their students anything at all about the basic structure of an atom and are clueless about basic chemistry. They can quote chapter and verse the Gospel of global warming...no global cooling, errrr global warming; is it global cooling? Oh, fuck it all - global climate change.

You see the results here. We're doomed.

And you might think that I'm being funny when I said above warming, cooling, warming...but that's exactly how the mantra has run for the past 50 years. Every 11 years, when a new Solar cycle has begun and the short term weather (NOT climate) in North America changes from one to the other the Fruitbats claim that, NOT North America alone but the entire fucking planet has "suffered" catastrophic climate warming, eleven years later cooling, eleven years later warming and so on ad nauseum. Why do they now say "global climate change" instead of global warming or global cooling? Because neither has happened. Reality has failed to fulfill their preferred outcome. So they take the position that no matter what happens they are right because the Village Idiots won't know the difference.

We are doomed...and the Village Idiots are leading the charge. Watch. You already know who will jump in and defend global climate change.

 

[RainmanTime]

And as if that is not bad enough, Darby, look at who is changing data from the past to suit their political need:

https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2015/02/22/noaa-caught-cooling-the-past/

And why aren't the "consensus scientists" in an uproar about CHANGING THE PAST DATA? Because they know where their research funds come from (NOAA, among others) and so they keep their mouths shut.

Yes, we are doomed, because politics has now overtaken the one area of mankind's endeavors which, when it was incorruptible (reasonably so), was able to lift us out of the Dark Ages. Get ready for the next Dark Ages. All thanks to political expediency over scientific honesty.

RMT

 

[KerrTexas]

To add on to the climate change theme, can add media hype on top of everything else mentioned. Now-a-days, normal seasonal weather conditions are all "storms", and get named.

Holy Ham Hocks, 'The Leveler' is coming, prepare yourselves, and it's going to dump snow (in places where snow is normal, and in winter too). Oh the horror. Lets go live to Jim. Jim, what's it like out there ? Jim : Well, there's snow everywhere ! As a matter of fact, I'm actually standing in it. Studio : Jim, is it cold ? Jim : Yes, this snow seems to be really cold . Studio : Wow, the Leveler is living up to its name, hope everyone prepared for it. Shelter in place. Oh yeah, travel ban in effect tonight. All citizens traveling after 9 PM are subject to arrest.

 

[Guittimetraveller]

David, you still needn't be so silent, too silent w. me, contrarily, as far, as I'M concerned, that money ideal is still a symbol & a repetition of the fact that the more, you please let me in on your t. tr. knowledge issue, whatever God is 'perfect' or not, the more both of us etc. can get away w. quite a lot, an issue, even your lawyer deserves to see as a good morality advantage, so I can find out & so on, good luck to us all, my best wishes, David etc., J.A. P.S.: yes, there is also a semi-ac. guitar, Wendy, w. me, if The T. Tr.'s impossible, my own & good news is just another issue that morally & still gives me no obligation, whatsoever that I can 'testify' to being happy w. any risk, whatsoever that my DK mother can seem to be legally against me being just myself, (maybe it's her envy that always 'has' to win(?)).

 

[Raquel H.]

When I see someone ranting about time travel, and guitars, God, women.... I'm thinking someone watched Bill and Ted and did a lot of hard drugs. And it all got mixed up into a pot of juicy goodness.

- Or maybe he's a real time traveler doing whatever time travelers do.

- Or maybe it's a ghost in the machine. An experimental A.I. that's run amok and may or may not be from the future, posting here in a frantic attempt to communicate with beings it doesn't understand.

But seriously, that was weird stuff.

 

[Gpa]

Who's David?

 

[Guittimetraveller]

David is most certainly a doctor, I know (next to) nothing about, see no hard evid. that I can say that much about, lest & till he can write me right now, to tell me, what his good news is, e.g., if The T. Machine HAS any obligation to be tachyon controlled, best wishes, J.A.

 

[Darby]

David is most certainly a doctor, I know (next to) nothing about, see no hard evid. that I can say that much about, lest & till he can write me right now, to tell me, what his good news is, e.g., if The T. Machine HAS any obligation to be tachyon controlled, best wishes, J.A.

WTF?
I swear to God that the above is actually English. But why would anyone post a random assembly of English words that, as a paragraph, makes no sense at all?

It seems that we have been invaded by non-English speakers, i.e. Italians (and a few Germans). I have no problem whatsoever with people from other countries. However, I don't try to fake speaking (writing in this case) their language(s). Therefore why do they fake writing mine?

Folks, if you don't actually read, write and speak English don't try to fake it. Especially don't try to fake it if your native language is Romance based. English is Germanic (Anglo-Frisian), not Romantic. Trying to fake English from a Romance perspective results in lots of laughs, poorly constructed syntax and little in the way of understanding your post. And don't use Google Translate. It's awful!

 

[seivtcho]

WTF?
I swear to God that the above is actually English. But why would anyone post a random assembly of English words that, as a paragraph, makes no sense at all?

It seems that we have been invaded by non-English speakers, i.e. Italians (and a few Germans). I have no problem whatsoever with people from other countries. However, I don't try to fake speaking (writing in this case) their language(s). Therefore why do they fake writing mine?

Folks, if you don't actually read, write and speak English don't try to fake it. Especially don't try to fake it if your native language is Romance based. English is Germanic (Anglo-Frisian), not Romantic. Trying to fake English from a Romance perspective results in lots of laughs, poorly constructed syntax and little in the way of understanding your post. And don't use Google Translate. It's awful!

There are certain brain diseases and conditions, that have such a symptom - talking and writing in such an "random assembly". So, you may not be invaded. Simply some of your native people may have such a disease or such a condition.

 

[Raquel H.]

I want to get mad and call them out for trolling and being attention whores, but let's face it. When you talk about anything that fascinates Fox Mulder it's going to attract that element of the world's population that uses hair spray as a nebulizer.

 

[thomas pendrake]

Back to the original question. Almost every bit of research in Space-science and astronomy tests the central tenets of both Special and General Relativity. the equivalence principle and the Relativistic structure of 4-space. The "heliocentric" solar system is so well established and so much a cornerstone of all space science that it is not directly tested, except for studies about the Oort cloud, but the truth of the basic principles of celestial mechanics would fall apart with every planetary and beyond (e.g., Voyager). The Michaelson/Morley experiment is the keystone of modern physics, and all of the tests of General Relativity are, ultimately, designed to uphold the validity of the results. Galilleo may have been forced to recant his observations, but remember "Eppur si muove"

Simplicio may have refused to look through a telescope, try it. Even the Catholic church has recanted it's persecution of Galilleo. Geocentrism and flat-Earthism have been thoroughly disproved. There may yet be some improvement of General Relativity. But no revival of geocentrism, except for some Me party supporters. Smoke, smoke, smoke that cigarette.