Temporal Divergence Meter

[Designer2]

Temporal Divergence Meter.

A Temporal Divergence meter measure any change in the time line.
Just before any major event a change in local gravity will occur
like 911 when there was a time line shift that resulting in a permanently
shifting all our futures lives. We all know that gravity effects time
flow so using this devices should be able to detect any changes in the
time line changes that will occur since we are switching streams of the
future.

The device was going to be built by me but the supple of IC didn't come
in on time so I will refer everyone to the evaluation kit since it will
be easy for everyone to purchased independently of me. This device will
be like the Princeton egg experiment except it will be for major changes
in time streams.

All you have to do is let the device sit somewhere stable and when a major
event occurs in the world or you life check to see if there is a change
in the measurement in which it should be constant. If it isn't constant
then a change have occurred theory is correct.

This devices it the most sensitive device on the market that I can find
commercially. I check all IC specs and this one was the best I could find
so monitor the least significant bit for changes. One last thing remember
the least significant bit on the device to see if you change time lines
for yourself personally or reality as a whole.

I am planning to make a tutorial for the devices when it comes in and
get everyone up to speed when my work lets up.

Here the link for the device for purchase.
KITMMA9550LEVM Freescale Semiconductor | KITMMA9550LEVM-ND | DigiKey

Designer.

 

[Dick Tater]

Interesting idea, but look out for temperature related output change, as well as environmental vibrations & signal noise. Would like to hear how this works out for you.

 

[Designer2]

John Titor post real or not was my inspiration for the idea since it was to detailed, that troubled me.
The planet growth idea was another inspiration as the planet grows gravity increases the more time lines are created if you know what I mean also there is more matter to support the new time line the proof of this would be if there is more water or the expansion (separation of continents) of the planet with addition gravity increases. Gravity might have been less since in the past since dinosaurs could support more mass in the far past right. The idea started along time ago with multiple different source material on Temporal Divergence on TTI so why not make a Temporal Divergence Meter.

Anyhow I just got the 25 chips in a day ago I thinks I'll spin a board.

Designer.

 

[Designer2]

Earth change events means also a time changing(time quake) event since what was the old configuration no longer exists thus we can conclude it is a new timeline since the old circumstances of the old time line are no longer in effect since the old and new are not contiguous. Changes like 911 changed the time line event stream to the future and have a large ripple effect thus local gravity should have change. So whenever a quake occurs new time line occur and local gravity should change. Just an idea of course.

Designer

 

[Dick Tater]

I never thought of this idea before, so I don't know. All I'm sure of is that most people who claim to know matter-of-fact what will or won't work don't really know. I like that you have an idea and are trying to test it. Good luck!

 

[Designer2]

Below are John Titors posts on Temporal Divergence and VGL system which is the inspiration for the Temporal Divergence Meter.

See Bold text for details related to Temporal Divergence Meter.
******************************************************************************

I saw the posting requesting the basic systems for a gravity distortion system that will allow time travel. Here they are:
1. Magnetic housing units for dual microsignularities.
2. Electron injection manifold to alter mass and gravity of microsingularities.
3. Cooling and x-ray venting system
4. Gravity sensors (VGL system)
5. Main clocks (4 cesium units)
6. Main computer units (3)

I would guess the temporal divergence between this worldline and my original is about 1 or 2 percent. Of course, the longer I am here, the larger that divergence becomes from my point of view.
The computer units and gravity sensors "record" your trip and you are quite easily able to return to your point of origin. I am aware that research is being done on faster units with more accurate clocks. I imagine that they will be able to go back farther with a higher degree of divergence confidence.
What's the largest technical problem when traveling in time?
The hard part of traveling through time is not the bending of gravity but the plotting of your course and holding to the basic "position" in your environment. This is done through a system called VGL (variable gravity lock).
Basically, the unit takes a reading of the local gravity and samples it during the "trip" in pulses. If the gravity is too far off, the unit stops or reverses itself to the last sample period where the readings were correct. If there is some sort of failure, the unit shuts down and drops out to where ever you may be.
When traveling to other worldlines there is a system of clocks and gravity sensors in the machine that sample the environment before dropping out. It's called VGL, (variable gravity lock). If a cement block were there, the machine would "backtrack" until it sensed relative congruity to the original gravity sample. A great deal of time and effort goes into picking just the right spot since you cannot physically move during a displacement.
Time travel is achieved by altering gravity. This concept is already proven by atomic clock experiments. The closer an observer is to a gravity source (high mass), the slower time passes for them. Traveling at high speeds mimics this effect which = the twin paradox of faster than light travel. However, this type of gravity manipulation is not sufficient to alter your worldline.
The computer system is connected to the unit through an electrical bus. There are actually three computers linked together that take the same signals from the gravity sensors and clocks. They use a Borda error correcting protocol that checks the integrity of the data and trips the VGL system.

if you change cars do you have to re-adjust the time machine?
Yes. But it's a function of the VGL system. A gravity baseline is taken and rechecked every time the unit is used. A new vehicle would alter the gravity signature.

Why did you go to 1975?
The first "leg" of my trip was from 2036 to 1975. After two VGL checks, the divergence was estimated at about 2.5% (from my 2036). I was "sent" to get an IBM computer system called the 5100. It was one the first portable computers made and it has the ability to read the older IBM programming languages in addition to APL and Basic. We need they system to "debug" various legacy computer programs in 2036. UNIX has a problem in 2038.
November 17, 2000 09:34
It is thought that being close to a gravitational field has a biological effect on all matter including cells. The effect is to slow the movement of electrons in the orbits of their nucleus, which slows the mechanical and biological functions of the observer close to the gravity. Thus the passing of time is a local phenomenon depending on how close you are to a gravitational source.
This is one example of a theory involving "time shells" progressing in size and intensity around a gravitational point from all matter. The more massive the object, the larger and more influential the time shells around it (like an onion). Another offshoot of this theory is that kinetic energy is actually the conversion of stored energy in the atom as it passes through time shells in a gravitational field.
It is actually quite dangerous to get too close to a distortion unit as it enters or leaves a worldline. It vents radiation and has a very strong localized gravity field. Personally, I worry about that a great deal.
It can be adjusted to some degree (the gravitational fields). The CG (center of gravity) is adjustable within about 4 feet and the unit is effective about 10 to 12 feet in either direction from there. The vertical distance is quite a bit shorter and is determined by sensors in the unit.
Depending on whether or not you are going forward or backward, the footprint of the unit is different. I wouldn't quite say it "scoops" up the ground cleanly. It sort of vibrates it loose and takes it along for the ride. It looks like someone raked the ground an inch or so deep with a small hand hoe or shovel. The negative ergosphere "scoops" up the front and back areas of the field. The positive ergosphere leaves a longer area near the center of mass. It's about a cubic foot of dirt spread out over six square feet or so.

What would happen if something touched the distortion field as it is turned on?
It would be quickly spread out over the lateral length of the gravity field. Imagine being squished and stretched at the same time. I would imagine anything left after that would be vaporized and generate static electricity.
Has the time machine ever been used while it was moving?
Not that I'm aware of. Its important that it remain as still as possible so the gravity sensors can get a good lock. The divergence confidence would be way off if the vehicle were moving.

The question involved how the time machine could travel to Earth in the future or past since the position of the planet would change in space. The question also asked about life support during travel and how physical structures are avoided.
This is actually a very good question that parts and pieces of the answer are scattered around in previous postings. I am often surprised that it is not the first one asked. You are correct; this problem is actually the most difficult part of time travel. Although some of your assumptions about matter displacement are a bit off, the problem is real. Inside the displacement unit are a series of very sensitive clocks and gravity sensors. This system is called the VGL (variable gravity lock). In simple terms, before the unit "leaves" a worldline, it takes a base reading of the local gravity and adjusts the Tipler sinusoid to "lock" into that position. Although the temporal physics of this statement are wrong, in effect, it holds you to the "Earth". During travel, it periodically checks to see that the field has not varied. If it does, it stops and reverses course or drops out at that point. Buildings and other terrain features are avoided in the same way. Yes, we do bring oxygen in the vehicle with us but we do not lose atmospheric pressure.

Important Begin
Won't even a small divergence between worldliness cause everything to look different to you as compared to your worldline?
The divergence measurement refers to the local gravitational field as compared to the point of origin. It is merely an empirical indicator of overall change in a worldline. Some things that are quite different on one worldline have very little effect as time passes and the worldlines appear to "converge" again and look very similar. Worldline changes are not exponential; they act more like chaotic attractors with varying effect depending on their size and location.
Important End

 

[Designer2]

Important Begin
10 January 2001 23:10
You mentioned a divergence percentage between time lines. How is it possible to measure divergence?
The measurement for worldline divergence is an observation variable isolated to the distortion unit. An effective analogy would be a "gravity radar". The unit's sensors take a "snapshot" of the local gravity around the unit before a flight. During travel, this baseline is periodically checked to make sure there are no major changes in the environment that would cause a catastrophic mass failure (brick wall appearing from nowhere). The percentage of VGL divergence from one worldline to another is a calculated guess by the three computers that control the unit based on its starting point. It is useless in describing characteristics of individual worldlines.
There is a bit of folklore about the first distortion driver who reaches a destination with a zero divergence. This would mean they had traveled on a space-like trip to their own worldline of origin. This paradox is quite possible although highly unlikely. I wonder if anyone out there can take current string theory and make that one work on paper?
You said 6 curled up dimensions. The current string theory suggests that there should be at least 7.
I may be mistaken but I thought it was pretty well established now that (N-10) was on track.
Important End

Very Important begin since a small change in your reality end up in a changes divergence. This one passage make the Temporal Divergence Meter relevant since it requires a divergence of 0.0002377% to be home. All this means John was very far away from home thus all his predictions should be false.

You stated you went back in time from 2036 to 1975 with a near 2 percent divergence. You also said that a zero divergence is a myth or technologically improbable.
Yes, a "ZD" is thought to be impossible. However, consider that an exact entry point "may" not be necessary to get home. The important factor is the path, not the destination. Under multiple world theory, there are an infinite number of "homes" that I could return to that don't have me there. The divergence for that window is somewhere near .0002377%.

Very Important end to this paragraph a 2 percent divergence is huge between and between world line that is 2.5 percent

02-01-2001 08:36 AM

At a divergence of 2% things are totally different there.

Unfortunately, winners of historical sports betting events are not high on the priority list of people in 2036. As a thought experiment, if I did tell you who the winning horse was and you killed it before the final race, would that make me a liar or would it support my statement that our worldlines are about 2% different? Do you know who won that race 30 years ago?


Change of world line 2.5 percent meant John was very far away from home thus all his predictions should be false because home is 0.0002377% and not 2.5% as stated in the paragraph below.

As far as the future goes, your worldline is about 2.5% different than mine. This is a roughly cumulative measurement based on my arrival in 1975. As far as I can tell right now, you are headed toward the same events I would call "my history" in 2036. However, the very nature of time travel states that every worldline is unique and you are very much in control of what you do and how you get there. Heck, the fact that I'm here makes it different from mine.

ACCELERATION = TIME DIALATION

As pointed out earlier, acceleration will produce time dilation. This can be observed by the "twins paradox". As one twin stays on Earth, the other twin in his accelerating spaceship experiences a slower passing of time. When he returns to Earth, he is noticeably younger than his twin who aged normally in Earth time. This type of "time travel" should have been proven already on this worldline with atomic clock experiments. With sufficient power, this type of time travel will only provide practical displacement in a future direction. This type of time travel is also isolated to a single worldline. You will not meet yourself.

GRAVITY = ACCELERATION

Very important since time flow changes the closer to the center of the earth you go thus different time lines below our feet as it were.

As Einstein pointed out with his STR, the effects of gravity and acceleration are the same. Therefore, you will experience the same time travel effects in the twin paradox by being close to a large gravity source. In the atomic clock experiments mentioned above, the reason there was a difference in time was not because the clock in the plane was moving, it was because the clock in the well was closer to the center of the Earth. Constant speed is not acceleration.

Two G's that small isn't it to generate right.
If so, how can you account for generating a gravity well deep enough to create a disparity between light cones without sucking the planet through the eye of a needle?
The gravity well created by the singularities is not that large. The portion of the field that is felt by the operator is about the equivalent of 2 Gs. I would urge you to examine a Penrose diagram for a Kerr black hole. As you are probably aware, the singularity is donut shaped and exhibits two event horizons. The singularities are used to "simulate" a path through the center of one of these singularities which is what takes the observer to an alternate worldline. Earlier in the thread I did go into this in a bit more detail.

Thus two Distinct separate time line due to the light barrier between ours and his indicated below.

The fact that he said he could not complete a 0 divergent trip meant that he could not return to his timeline and a mission into the past to help his people is logically flawed.
I thought we went over that to your satisfaction? Doesn't everyone know after looking at a Penrose for a Kerr singularity that you have to travel faster than light to get to the "exact" same worldline?
I can see your not amused that we would be confused as the same person. I did find it flattering. I think you find some of the physics questions we're dealing with on other sites quite interesting...perhaps even convincing.

Note the above searches on these details was not complete please go to the source material for further details.

All the evidence is here in these post you need not a thing more. If you don't see it there is no hope at all its been starring you right in the face for a whole decade. People must learn everything is data, everything.

 

[Designer2]

John Titor Temporal Divergence between world line is 2.5% and
to technically be home it must be around 0.0002377%.
The Temporal Divergence Meter Accuracy is 0.016 mg/LSB.
You do the math if the accuracy is good enough to detect
world changing event in the time line.
Here is the attachment for the full data sheet on this web
site I got the IC from:
http://cache.freescale.com/files/sensors/doc/data_sheet/MMA955xL.pdf.

If it is not good enough you can go to the National Research
Council for real time gravity measurement of you local area.
And you can get the past history over many years and try
and correlate world event i.e.) Presidential elections, world
changing events, wars and natural changes on Earth Flood and
Eruptions to see if the theory is true in the past. I believe
this should be an easy check of the theory I hope. Something
interesting to do right.

Designer.

 

[Gpa]

This devices it the most sensitive device on the market that I can find
commercially. I check all IC specs and this one was the best I could find
so monitor the least significant bit for changes. One last thing remember
the least significant bit on the device to see if you change time lines
for yourself personally or reality as a whole.
I am planning to make a tutorial for the devices when it comes in and
get everyone up to speed when my work lets up.
Here the link for the device for purchase.
KITMMA9550LEVM Freescale Semiconductor | KITMMA9550LEVM-ND | DigiKey

Or, you could save your money and disassemble your family's Wii controllers or their smart phones for the accelerometers in them.

All you have to do is let the device sit somewhere stable and when a major
event occurs in the world or you life check to see if there is a change
in the measurement in which it should be constant. If it isn't constant
then a change have occurred theory is correct.

Or, even better, you could avoid having your family hate you and just go here...
GRACE - Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment
and gain an understanding that the earth's gravitational field is NOT stable to begin with.
"The gravity variations that GRACE will study include: changes due to surface and deep currents in the ocean; runoff and ground water storage on land masses; exchanges between ice sheets or glaciers and the oceans; and variations of mass within the Earth. Another goal of the mission is to create a better profile of the Earth's atmosphere. The results from GRACE will make a huge contribution to the goals of NASA's Earth Science Enterprise, Earth Observation System (EOS) and global climate change studies."
Looks like they left out temporal divergences.

 

[Designer2]

Hi GPA and Dike Tater

The reason why I selected this accelerometer is it is super
accurate at 0.016 mg/LSB and just came out in the market look
at the date stamp.

Anyhow.

GPA this theory should be able to be proved or disproved
fairly quickly in my opinion.
All we need is ground gravity measurement station data
in specific locations around the world. Then select
specific event dates; big event.
1. 911
2. Fukushima
3. Katrina
4. All Presidential Elections
etc.

Since all these event changed future outcomes in the time line
this should be obvious to everyone right because if it did not
happen we would be living in a different world where people are
dead when they should be alive and the other way around OK.

Now get the dates for these events.

Look at gravity two weeks before and after the event to see
if there is any real changes in local gravity compared to
the average mean measurement. If would be interesting to
see if there was a lasting change in gravity after these event.
If there is a change then this helps prove that gravity is some
how correlated to time we hope while living on Earth.

Designer.

 

[Einstein]

Designer2

The sensors I used during my investigations were the AXDL203 and the AXDL311 accelerometer chips. Both have resolutions below 2mg. But both sensors are just dual axis sensors.

I did look over the specs of the device you are using and noticed it has an analog to digital signal processor built in. And your device has a 3 axis accelerometer built in. The chips I used were just analog signal chips.

If you are just measuring the gravity acceleration, only one axis would suffice.

I've been thinking about building a device using accelerometers to measure a gravitational standing wave. I would need to orient two sensors with their axis opposed horizontally to the earths surface. If the standing wave fluctuates in intensity, both sensors would indicate identical readings. I suspect this device could also be used as an altimeter because the intensity of the gravitational standing wave should decrease with increasing distance away from the earths surface. For all I know the device could already exist. Kind of a highly specialized use for accelerometer chips. It is just my suspicion that the flow of time will vary with the intensity of a gravitational standing wave.

 

[Designer2]

Einstein we been going down the same path all these year and not knowing it; the problem is we have been to secretive.
I know that you know we know we all want to build something stupid dealing with time travel right.
The whole point of a more accurate accelerometer is who knows what data we will find in the least significant bits.
I have a theory of how divergence works but I won't bring it out for now I don't want you guy to nail me to
the cross just yet you probably have theory to; that's why we are all here in the first place.

Designer.

 

[Dick Tater]

Just remember that an accelerometer will measure a net acceleration. If you have it tied to an object where it can't move, it probably will only measure vibration (or throwing the object). Try suspending it by a spring or something so a force can accelerate it.

 

[Einstein]

I have a theory of how divergence works but I won't bring it out for now I don't want you guy to nail me to
the cross just yet you probably have theory to; that's why we are all here in the first place.

Designer.

Actually I don't have any experiments lined up to confirm extra dimensions of time that allow for divergence to exist.

But last month I was playing with a very simple phase shift circuit that produced an interesting effect. I was monitoring the input phase and the output phase of a sine wave when running it through the phase shift circuit. At frequencies below 100Hz I noticed the phase of the shifted wave was shifted in time to occur before the input wave phase. Kind of like cause and effect reversed its temporal direction below 100Hz.

Now it was just a curious oddity that I shelved. But I have been giving it some thought. I was thinking that if I ran a larger quantity of these phase shifters connected in series, I could effectively get a shifted wave that occurred several seconds in the past before I actually turned the device on. And maybe have the shifted wave turn on a light to indicate that I will turn the device on several seconds in the future. Of course I don't know if I'm being fooled somehow by my test instruments. At any rate if the effect is real, then it would lead to an experiment that might confirm the existence of extra dimensions of time.

Here is the link to the circuit I played with:

> power supplies > ac dc dc dc > single transistor phase shifter l12883 > Next.gr

I believe I was running a sine wave at around 10Hz through the input point. Also I just used a 2N3904 NPN transistor instead of the one called for in the circuit.

It would be fun to get several people to play with this and see what we can come up with. If it is real, I can see myself building a very large one, so I can send the winning lotto numbers back in time far enough to go buy the winning lotto ticket.

 

[RainmanTime]

At frequencies below 100Hz I noticed the phase of the shifted wave was shifted in time to occur before the input wave phase. Kind of like cause and effect reversed its temporal direction below 100Hz.

Nothing of the sort. All you did was operate the circuit outside its guaranteed stable bandwidth. Because these types of circuits are designed to be linear, there are limits to the operating frequencies that can be used with these circuits where their outputs will remain linear, and thus stable. That range is the design's guaranteed bandwidth. The most common analytic diagram that shows bandwidth and frequency response of any physical system is called the Bode Plot. It shows both the gain and phase response of the subject physical system (in this case an electric circuit) over a range of frequencies. I use Bode Plots all the time in aircraft controls because the principles of stability of oscillatory systems works for airplanes as much as it does for electronics.

Now it was just a curious oddity that I shelved. But I have been giving it some thought. I was thinking that if I ran a larger quantity of these phase shifters connected in series, I could effectively get a shifted wave that occurred several seconds in the past before I actually turned the device on. And maybe have the shifted wave turn on a light to indicate that I will turn the device on several seconds in the future. Of course I don't know if I'm being fooled somehow by my test instruments. At any rate if the effect is real, then it would lead to an experiment that might confirm the existence of extra dimensions of time.

The effect is certainly real, but you are being fooled. Al that is happening is that when you operate the circuit outside its linear bandwidth, the phase lag is exceeding 360 degrees. And that just causes the Oscope to wrap around. You may think it is leading the input, but it is not. And the way you can prove it to yourself is to leave the Oscope on, and if you can capture waveforms, turn off the signal generator power, set the scope to trigger and store the waveform for when you turn it on, and then turn on the signal generator power. The inrush current into the circuit will give you a decidedly non-sine wave distortion immediately after power on. And if you capture the trace you will see that same distorted shape on the output trace, but shifted GREATER than 360 degrees from the input if your signal generator is set to the frequencies where you see this behavior.

Here is the link to the circuit I played with:

> power supplies > ac dc dc dc > single transistor phase shifter l12883 > Next.gr

Did you watch the first video provided after the circuit? She even briefly refers to the fact that the circuit can only operate over a certain range of frequencies. You are just operating the circuit outside the frequencies it was designed to operate in. As such, you get anomalous results which you have just interpreted incorrectly.

But I know you too well. You will dispute this, and continue to think you are seeing a violation of cause and effect. Have fun with that!
RMT

 

[lledbetter2266]

Very good, but don't forget the influence of gravitational fluctuations as influenced by the sun (and most importantly, magnetic influences). Remember, the sun generates a high volume of magnetic vortices, many of which reach the Earth's surface. That is going to be key, so keep up the good work but do not lose focus by concentrating too much on dead end conclusions present in the small details (or, that is, fixating upon tangential branches of the thought process).
To Einstein: 1) Phase-shifting is currently understood as to be viable only concerning the behavior of photons, and, such behavior (that is; quantum phase-shifting), is an natural consequence of pre-existing "time travel" efforts, therefore, the idea of producing some sort of device to influence the behavior will prove to fail, although some interesting results may be achievable. You can think of this process similarly to applying electrical charge to a muscle: the muscle twitches; however, no useful work is achieved. However; the muscle, when naturally controlled by the host organism, produces meaningful work. The concept is similar, indicating a more in depth thought process concerning the matter should be pursued. 2) Divergence, as you title it, I think, if I am reading your wording correctly, may be what we call 'tuning', or, much more simply put, the 'vibrations'. Multiple dimensions, while they may exist, play no part in practical experiments involving 'time travel'. Instead, it is currently understood that thresholds are achieved by a process in which vibrations at the planck scale are manipulated. I am not certain if your definition of divergence is similar to the idea I am talking about, but if so, then it should be safe to assume your idea is similar to 'tuning'. 3) Producing some sort of device to travel back to win the lottery is not likely, as measurable velocities, movements, etc., which have not occurred, do not exist. This of course implies that 'return' from past 'time-travel' will yield an unknown future. But, keeping in mind that all events which have contained energy, and which developed velocity, never cease to exist, but only change form, it is clear that manipulation of a current or "moment" event may be manipulated in such a way as to so closely resemble a 'past' event, or 'time-line', if you will, as to be un-measurable. So in other words, the 'traveller', while perceiving and transferring information to the 'past' certainly experiences the event as reality, it is understood that such experiences are merely reproductions of the original (although so accurately as to be perceived and 'lived' as 'real'). Therefore, when the 'traveller' returns to the lab, it appears as if he has 'travelled' to the future, however no such occurrence has been achieved, only a 're-tuning' is evident, and no loss or increase of overall energy has been realized.

 

[Einstein]

Did you watch the first video provided after the circuit? She even briefly refers to the fact that the circuit can only operate over a certain range of frequencies. You are just operating the circuit outside the frequencies it was designed to operate in. As such, you get anomalous results which you have just interpreted incorrectly.

But I know you too well. You will dispute this, and continue to think you are seeing a violation of cause and effect. Have fun with that!
RMT

I just watched the video, since I wasn't aware that was also on the page. I watched some of her videos on other subjects as well. But she isn't discussing the particular phase shift circuit on that page. If you take a closer look in her video, the phase shift circuit she is using is entirely different from the one on the page. You see, I was searching for a variable phase shift circuit that would work over a wide frequency band. If you'll note, the circuit on the page says right below the image that it works well between 600Hz and 4KHz. And that is the only variable phase shift circuit I could find. I suspect I could find an integrated chip that would perform to my requirements. Maybe Designer2 knows of one.

This morning I took the circuit off the shelf and measured the amount of time shift that actually occurs. It looks like a 10 millisecond span. At 30Hz the phase shift will shift between 5 milliseconds before, to 5 milliseconds after. At 10Hz the time shift is 20 milliseconds before to 10 milliseconds before. This isn't anomalous behavior, since it can reliably be reproduced. I did try other NPN transistors, and the result is the same.

I did say I shelved the circuit. And I did mention I suspect my test equipment could be fooling me. Now I did watch the waveforms as I dialed the frequency up from 10Hz to 600Hz. The shifted wave peak moves from before to after the primary wave peak. So the observations can still be interpreted as a cause and effect reversal event. But I didn't prove it. And I suspect you didn't either. Although I like your suggestion to record the event by capturing the waveform. My scope does have that feature. But I've never played with that aspect before. I'll have to check it out.

 

[Darby]

Ray,

I was going to respond to this thread on topic but, alas, why bother. The American public education system is dead (and I'm only assuming that the death only extends to our public school system; that the posters are Americans and the problem is not worldwide). Yikes! What I've read above in several of the posts on this thread makes me shudder. It's obvious to me that our American system of public education no longer spends a single second on teaching students physical science. The education system elite appear to assume all students to be total dolts and treats them as such, i.e. the common person is a half-wit hairy neanderthal who doesn't have the mental capacity to understand proper science thus they have no right to be taught proper science.

Its time to end public education as it currently exists. Or so it seems.

You know the laws of physics. I know the laws of physics. But it appears that no one else even cares about the laws of physics else they would take some time and actually explore and learn them. No wonder I've pretty much left this and like sites. Science is doomed and a new dark age of knowledge is upon us.

 

[Dick Tater]

Ray,

I was going to respond to this thread on topic but, alas, why bother. The American public education system is dead (and I'm only assuming that the death only extends to our public school system; that the posters are Americans and the problem is not worldwide). Yikes! What I've read above in several of the posts on this thread makes me shudder. It's obvious to me that our American system of public education no longer spends a single second on teaching students physical science. The education system elite appear to assume all students to be total dolts and treats them as such, i.e. the common person is a half-wit hairy neanderthal who doesn't have the mental capacity to understand proper science thus they have no right to be taught proper science.

Its time to end public education as it currently exists. Or so it seems.

You know the laws of physics. I know the laws of physics. But it appears that no one else even cares about the laws of physics else they would take some time and actually explore and learn them. No wonder I've pretty much left this and like sites. Science is doomed and a new dark age of knowledge is upon us.

You've left this site but you're still posting here? And everyone else is stupid?

 

[Einstein]

Ray,

I was going to respond to this thread on topic but, alas, why bother. The American public education system is dead (and I'm only assuming that the death only extends to our public school system; that the posters are Americans and the problem is not worldwide). Yikes! What I've read above in several of the posts on this thread makes me shudder. It's obvious to me that our American system of public education no longer spends a single second on teaching students physical science. The education system elite appear to assume all students to be total dolts and treats them as such, i.e. the common person is a half-wit hairy neanderthal who doesn't have the mental capacity to understand proper science thus they have no right to be taught proper science.

Its time to end public education as it currently exists. Or so it seems.

You know the laws of physics. I know the laws of physics. But it appears that no one else even cares about the laws of physics else they would take some time and actually explore and learn them. No wonder I've pretty much left this and like sites. Science is doomed and a new dark age of knowledge is upon us.

I suspect Ray wont respond. Since he also has to take responsibility for passing on the knowledge from the previous generation to the next. And his hands may be tied as to what he is allowed to pass on. But what I would like to know is the chain of command that controls what is being passed off as knowledge. If none of us have real factual based knowledge to act upon, then that leaves us at the mercy of those that do.

Now I thought that I knew the laws of physics. But as time moves on I am discovering that what I was taught is pure fiction. How much of what I was taught is fact? Probably none of it. I think Newton's laws of motion are factual. But the mathematical equations we were taught to represent those laws are not. Its easy enough to take those laws and actual physical observations and derive real mathematical equations. But only if you question the veracity of the existing math.

I don't believe the speed of light is constant in all reference frames. That one is easy to verify (hint: Radar guns). Centrifugal force is a real force, and not fictitious as I was taught. Also easy to verify. What about gravity? Ha ha ha. My experiments suggest what we are taught in school about gravity is also pure fiction. So are there real laws of physics? Maybe, but you're on your own in discovering what they are.

So you were taught calculus. I was taught calculus. Ray was taught calculus. So tell me, do you use integration, or differentiation to calculate the area under a curve? That one is also a laugh or two.

By the way. I managed to get up off my duff and go do Ray's suggestion on capturing a waveform. I'm halfway done with the experiment. Using the input wave as the trigger source, both wave forms occur simultaneously. I expect the same result though when I use the output wave as the primary trigger source. It will just confirm my suspicion that somehow I'm being fooled. What I find so far is that both input and output waves both exist in time but are not independent of time.