time and motion - is the mathematics understood?

[Darby]

are there actually mods on this site? what is the point of trying to have a discussion if anyone can bascially pour shit over every thread? If its not Titor, its genuine certifiable morons who believe they have 'the answer' and the spooky sound effects to back it up. Thank god you and a couple of others are her eDarby, or I'd be close to giving up, just when I was starting.

Astro,

Again, thank you for the comments.

Ah, don't worry too much about Fruitbat posts. This is after all an alt-sci site. A few of us try to get some real science into the discussion and in many ways I don't fault to Fruitbats. I can't speak to other countries but in the US public education has in large part abandoned the basics of education, especially science and math, for social engineering of youth. Progressive Socialist Peoples' Education at work. So they come out of school with little to no background in science and get their education on Keeleynet (and the like). Their real problem is that their education never included how to purchase and wear real bullshit goggles and it defined having an open mind as giving each and every idea proposed, no matter how silly and absured versus the well founded and supported by research equal weight. Thus a rubbing plate and a magnet or two together in the presence of a Caduceus Coil and a quartz crystal while wearing a copper coil on your head is an equally valid approach to time travel as is the entirety of General Relativity. Well and professionally researched scientific theories are, in the modern open mind, just one person's opinion. The better opinion seems to be the Internet BBS word salad pseudo-scientific babble approach.

 

[Einstein]

astroboyuk

but no, you have to post 3000 word essays on why spagetti is really bannanas in hyperspace and its the new world order manipulating hair gel and forcing us to eat it via secret injection rooms invented by Opus Dea.

Dude, you forgot to mention the water. We are all willingly drinking the water. It turns us into docile obedient and ignorant sheep.

 

[Einstein]

Darby

You got any facts to sprinkle on that word salad post of yours?

 

[Darby]

Jcpo,

The American astronomer Halton "Chip" Arp, recently deceased, fought for forty years that the factual truth of his observations against the vanities and nonsense theories up appears

Arp published a cosmology theory in 1960 that proposed that the standard Big Bang model can otherwise be explained by certain forms of galactic redshift. That was more than half a century ago. During the intervening 50+ years astronomy has made a few advancements in its ability to verify theories by observation of phenomona. The SDSS (Sloan Digital Sky Survey) made the observations starting in 2000 and continued the effort for 10 years. The data was analyzed, published in 2011, peer reviewed, discussed at length and Arp was wrong. His theory, not a bad theory in itself considering when he proposed it as an alternative to the standard Big Bang model, had been falsified.

Criticism by peers is, well, peer review. Arp is a big boy and he plays in the big boys' laboratory.

Niels Bohr and Albert Einstein; Stephen Hawking and Kip Thorne - famous lifelong friends always involved in debates over each others competing theories. If the theoretical scientist has thin skin and hates criticism then s/he needs to look toward a career change. But losing the debate is not a valid criteria for promotion to Scientific Martyr...except on the Internet BBS, of course.

From Dr. John Baez's, PhD (University of California, Riverside Dept. of Physics) "Crackpot Index":

40 points for claiming that the "scientific establishment" is engaged in a "conspiracy" to prevent your work from gaining its well-deserved fame, or suchlike.​

 

[Einstein]

Hey

Where is RMT? I think astroboyuk and RMT could be brothers. (or sock puppets? but which one is the sock puppet?)

 

[Darby]

Hey

Where is RMT? I think astroboyuk and RMT could be brothers. (or sock puppets? but which one is the sock puppet?)

einstein,

Knock it off. You don't believe what you posted and tossing it out like that is plain, pure and unadulterated bullshit - and you know it.

If you have an OT argument to make then make your argument. Purposely attempting to disrupt the forum by driving away a new member is trolling and beneath you.

 

[Jcpo]

Astro,

Again, thank you for the comments.

Ah, don't worry too much about Fruitbat posts. This is after all an alt-sci site. A few of us try to get some real science into the discussion and in many ways I don't fault to Fruitbats. I can't speak to other countries but in the US public education has in large part abandoned the basics of education, especially science and math, for social engineering of youth. Progressive Socialist Peoples' Education at work. So they come out of school with little to no background in science and get their education on Keeleynet (and the like). Their real problem is that their education never included how to purchase and wear real bullshit goggles and it defined having an open mind as giving each and every idea proposed, no matter how silly and absured versus the well founded and supported by research equal weight. Thus a rubbing plate and a magnet or two together in the presence of a Caduceus Coil and a quartz crystal while wearing a copper coil on your head is an equally valid approach to time travel as is the entirety of General Relativity. Well and professionally researched scientific theories are, in the modern open mind, just one person's opinion. The better opinion seems to be the Internet BBS word salad pseudo-scientific babble approach.

You misunderstand me. You read what you want. My education was scientific as my high school diploma is specialized in sciences and especially Electricity and Mechanics engineering.
You mean scientific discussion but you can't accept look honestly and without fear in the face, any problems that may arise with it.

"The only sacred truth is that there are no sacred truth: all claims must be examined with a critical mind, the arguments from authority are worthless; anything that does not fit the facts must be rejected or revised. Science is not perfect. It is often misused. It is only a tool, but it is the best tool we have. "

Indeed, how can we believe that science - which is used to understand the universe and whose purpose is the knowledge it included - has a logical and efficient every day gives tangible results, while the Universe would have neither logic nor consistency or purpose? How can we accept such a paradox, such an illogical situation? And how, in which case, keep hope?

Following this reasoning completely illogical scientists, moreover denying the major component of that universe - the secret - how to nurture the wisdom of it in our hearts and in human brains that Nature created thirsting for truth and justice?

There is only one way against this perversion and contradiction: to study what Isaac Newton called the Prisca sapientia: wisdom first, that of the ancients, and fight for the Right, the True, the Beautiful and the Good ... By remembering that any fight is useless.

 

[Einstein]

Jcpo

Time is the one variable that everything else revolves about. Just remember that time runs slower in a gravitational field. That is a fact. Time therefore runs even slower on the sun than here on Earth. A variable quantity that has direction is usually described as a vector. A force is described mathematically as a vector. Thus by definition Time is a force.

Don't forget the other puzzling fact about Albert Einstein. He had just a mediocre education. Didn't really do that well in school. So he ends up being a patent clerk. Who miraculously turns into a science God. I think this story stands up there right next to John Titor's time travel tale (Oops, I said the "T" word, forgive me please.)

 

[Darby]

You misunderstand me. You read what you want. My education was scientific as my high school diploma is specialized in sciences and especially Electricity and Mechanics engineering.

Jcpo,

I believe (I could be wrong) that you did not attend public high school in the US. I'm only basing that on what appears to be your use of translation software and your use of French. So I'm just guessing Canada or France.

My comments about education were specific to the United States' current system of public education. As I said to Astro, I cannot speak to other countrys' public education systems.

 

[Einstein]

einstein,

Knock it off. You don't believe what you posted and tossing it out like that is plain, pure and unadulterated bullshit - and you know it.

If you have an OT argument to make then make your argument. Purposely attempting to disrupt the forum by driving away a new member is trolling and beneath you.

I'm not attempting to drive astroboyuk away. I kind of like the guy. And a little humor injected into the discussion makes for a more balanced discussion. I was just trying to bait RMT to join the discussion. He usually does arrive just in time to correct any misconceptions inadvertently construed.

 

[Darby]

Just remember that time runs slower in a gravitational field.

Einstein,

That's true but very incomplete. As discussed above, when we talk about a vacuum state we are including the fact that there will always be a gravitational field associated with every point in out spacetime (universe). So stating that time runs slower in a gravitational field in technically not correct. The rate of the passing of time at point A, relative to an observer at point B, is a function of the curvature of spacetime at each point, with the curvature being mediated by the local gravitational fields. Observer C, in a field different than B's, will observe another solution to the rate of the passage of time at A.

 

[Jcpo]

Of course I'm french as I said somewhere so it's not High school diploma but Baccalauréat... in fact, same shit. Sorry for using translating tools but it is a way faster and easier for me with huge "text pavement". If there are too many errors you can tell me

Einstein, thx again for those clarification. And about the Master of Quantum Mechanics it appears that his wife have many to do with his discoveries.

And about Arp, what do you mean with "his theory have been falsified" ?

 

[Darby]

I was just trying to bait RMT to join the discussion.

Here's how you do that without trolling:

Post: "Ray - do you want to weigh in on this topic?"

You can even send him a PM: "Ray - check out this thread."

And I'll bet that my humor, as expressed in the three lines above, gets the more chuckles.

 

[Darby]

Sorry for using translating tools but it is a way faster and easier for me with huge "text pavement".

No need to apologize. The translator is working well enough such that your points are made, my friend.

 

[Einstein]

Einstein,

That's true but very incomplete. As discussed above, when we talk about a vacuum state we are including the fact that there will always be a gravitational field associated with every point in out spacetime (universe). So stating that time runs slower in a gravitational field in technically not correct. The rate of the passing of time at point A, relative to an observer at point B, is a function of the curvature of spacetime at each point, with the curvature being mediated by the local gravitational fields. Observer C, in a field different than B's, will observe another solution to the rate of the passage of time at A.

Yes, I agree with you, and see your point. For instance time runs faster on the earth than on the sun. Yet both are under the influence of gravitational fields. I should have been more specific when I said time runs slower in a gravitational field. Perhaps comparing time to some standard minimum spacetime curvature, and then stating that time flows slower as spacetime curvature increases (or gravitational field strength).

In any event though, a control over spacetime curvature will also elicit a control over times flow rate. And I want to point out that if the flow of time becoming variable may indeed be the propulsive force behind the workings of a time machine.

 

[Einstein]

Here's how you do that without trolling:

Post: "Ray - do you want to weigh in on this topic?"

You can even send him a PM: "Ray - check out this thread."

And I'll bet that my humor, as expressed in the three lines above, gets the more chuckles.

Maybe so. But I'll bet my way produces more drama. In any event, the variance in personalities makes for a very interesting discussion.

 

[astroboyuk]

Maybe so. But I'll bet my way produces more drama. In any event, the variance in personalities makes for a very interesting discussion.

Interesting to you perhaps Einstein, but none of the last 10 posts have really been on-topic: and unfortunately Im not really up to speed with the in-jokes around here, so its all a bit annoying to a newbie like me. But Im not without a sense of humour, and can take a joke etc...so not trying to make waves, just would rather the jokes were still on topic.

he'res a new (theoretical) question in this topic.

"when" (ha ha ) time travel is invented, and they are doing the first tests: do you think the mathematics will be complete - or still with a few rough edges.. so that while they have the mechanism to induce time travel, they dont quite have the tools to land someone entirely accurately in a desired time and place? Will the first few tests leave peoplesent to the wrong place?

 

[Einstein]

astroboyuk

"when" (ha ha ) time travel is invented, and they are doing the first tests: do you think the mathematics will be complete - or still with a few rough edges.. so that while they have the mechanism to induce time travel, they dont quite have the tools to land someone entirely accurately in a desired time and place? Will the first few tests leave peoplesent to the wrong place?

Consider that virtually all data gathered so far has been by the good old fashioned trial and error method. So I personally would prefer raw data first before I even ventured to create a mathematical description. Math is a very powerful tool when used with real facts.

Just look at the Hubble telescope. It was claimed that the reflecting mirror was ground to the wrong tolerances thus creating the blurred images. They never said it, but it was almost as if the refracting index of glass had changed due to its lack of gravitational weight while in orbit. The fix is what led me to this hypothesis. They didn't grind a new mirror to the correct dimensions. Instead they used an array of small computer adjustable mirrors to create one large mirror. One that could compensate and adjust for any refractive index.

You know I seem to recall reading that they did something similar with the geosynchronous satellites in orbit that are used for gps. The calculated specs didn't work, so they had to use some type of compensator to synchronize everything.

So in all likelihood, some type of feedback control system would probably be the preferred method for traveling through time.

 

[Jcpo]

Nice transition and to complete the answer they will surely not send someone but rather an object...

And in my opinion I think that teleporting is the first technology to develop for a time travel machine so that way there should be accuracy. Then understanding (space)time dilatation, develop the technology and mix the twice.

 

[RainmanTime]

are there actually mods on this site? what is the point of trying to have a discussion if anyone can bascially pour shit over every thread? If its not Titor, its genuine certifiable morons who believe they have 'the answer' and the spooky sound effects to back it up. Thank god you and a couple of others are her eDarby, or I'd be close to giving up, just when I was starting.

Sorry astroboyuk, my day job of reverse engineering alien UFOs has kept me busy as of late! That's a joke!

We are wholly unpaid mods here. We do it in our spare time, and as such we don't even attempt to police threads to keep them on target. Basically, we just try to keep the riff raff out and make sure people are not being attacked ad hominem (but it is OPEN SEASON on ideas!).

What can I say? It it the "wild and wooly internet". You seem to be a level-headed person, and seem to have the same scientific outlook as myself and Darby. So as for the others....just kind of go with the flow, and ignore them if they get you to freaked out. But by all means, CHALLENGE THE BS if you feel up for it! I have been here so long, I used to be quite the combatant for rigorous, veridical science. But my work has become a lot more interesting than debating people with conspiracy theories.

Now I must get back to my Bilderburger task masters!
RMT