Welcome to your new world-wide religion!

[s19n]

Re: Al Gore Has No Clothes!

That's pretty big news.

Greed will put an end to the scam eventually. As soon as producers realize how much money they can save in packaging costs when they finally convince consumers they are being selfish by not using refillable containers. And when the cost of PVC's scale to the point where large investors can get involved.

 

[TimeLord]

Hi RMT. You called this one far in advance of 11-17-09. Bravo. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif I never was convinced of the hype but found myself intensely disinterested. Now I know why.

Always question "science" whose complete data cannot be directly measured by the average person.

 

[RainmanTime]

Always question "science" whose complete data cannot be directly measured by the average person.

Not only that: But any "science" that is promoted by a "scientist" who refuses to release his raw data, and merely wants you to "trust him" that he did the right calculations, without error, must be immediately thrown in the trash as non-veridical science.

REAL scientists are not only NOT afraid to release all their data, and their calculations, but they actually welcome other people checking their work in case they may have actually made an error. These idiots from East Anglia University CRU with their stories of "oh the dog ate the data" and other ruses to avoid FULL DISCLOSURE are doing so much damage to the public perception of science that it makes me VERY VERY angry! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/mad.gif

RMT

 

[TimeLord]

Exactly true.

And it just keeps coming. Here we have James Lovelock, creator of the Gaia hypothesis and well-known climate scientist:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/mar/29/james-lovelock-climate-change

He says that humans are too stupid to prevent climate change and that "it may be necessary to put democracy on hold for a while". There you have it, it's completely political. Of course, that was clear when Al Gore was promoting things.

I would love to find a way to get people to stop fearing science and stop believing bogus science. Any effective ways to do that? (The challenge, I think, is that true scientists are generally not attention-seekers and thus stay out of the limelight.)

 

[RainmanTime]

And it just keeps coming. Here we have James Lovelock, creator of the Gaia hypothesis and well-known climate scientist:
(snip)
He says that humans are too stupid to prevent climate change and that "it may be necessary to put democracy on hold for a while". There you have it, it's completely political. Of course, that was clear when Al Gore was promoting things.

Oh yeah. I also saw that story today. Amazing at the same time it is frightening. Now, in the USA the Democrats are always claiming that what Obama is doing is "not socialism." Well, given this story by someone of the same political ilk, they could be right... sounds more like FASCISM to me!!! :eek:

It has always been about politics, money, and control. Which is, of course, why Al Gore is the biggest proponent of the bogus AGW theory. How any "honest" liberal could NOT have seen that right off the bat is beyond me. But for them to continue to support this nonsense... well, it would seem that they may actually agree they need to be controlled.

So let's just control all those people who vote to be subject to it? The rest of us continue to live free! Deal? :D
RMT

 

[RainmanTime]

I would love to find a way to get people to stop fearing science and stop believing bogus science. Any effective ways to do that?

Of course. It calls for MORE basic science education so that you understand it well enough to know that you do not have to merely "believe" people...but rather look at the data on your own. Unfortunately, in the USA, we have continually dumbed-down science education, requiring less and less of new students. And it shows in our continual slide in our education levels falling behind the rest of the world.

(The challenge, I think, is that true scientists are generally not attention-seekers and thus stay out of the limelight.)

Exactly true. If they have done their science job correctly, and completely, they do not need the limelight for their data and their analysis stand on their own as testament to their correctness. If one has basic science education, one does not need anyone to "interpret" science that is properly documented such that nothing is withheld from view.

RMT

 

[RainmanTime]

And Now...UK Gov speaks on ClimateGate!

Well,

We certainly have a tradition of the USA and UK being very close. Close allies in war and trade. Close in the values we share. Even fairly close in our forms of government. But who knew JUST how close our governments were! Because now it is clear the UK government is JUST AS COMPLETELY BROKEN AND CORRUPT AS OURS!

Here is a link to the UK Parliamentary Inquiry into Climategate.

Here are a couple of the most choice quotes from the esteemed MPs who participated in this whitewash:

<font color="red"> "The focus on Professor Jones and CRU has been largely misplaced. " [/COLOR]

Even though investigators have said he willfully violated UK FOIA laws, but because the law was written with a 6 month statute of limitations for prosecution, they could not legally prosecute him. I see. He actually broke the law, but the law lets him skate, and so then the focus is misplaced. Interesting, that. But here is the best:

<font color="red"> "On the accusations relating to Professor Jones’s refusal to share raw data and computer codes, the Committee considers that his actions were in line with common practice in the climate science community but that those practices need to change." [/COLOR]

So let me see if I get this opinion correct:
1) For at least two centuries (I am being conservative), the Scientific Method has clearly stated that you openly share your data and methods, not only to allow people to catch errors, but to show you are not fudging anything.
2) Even though the entire rest of the world's scientific community has known about these standards, and more or less obeyed them, it was fine and dandy for a specialized segment of science (which did not exist more than 4 decades ago) to violate that rules because they had their own "common practice."
3) We are admitting that those practices need to change (but not saying they were wrong at the time?), and we don't really much care about the reason why Jones was being so secretive with the data (not to mention outright lying).

Amazing. But still there is more that is hard to reconcile with how I thought science was supposed to be practiced:

<font color="red"> "On the mishandling of Freedom of Information (FoI) requests, the Committee considers that much of the responsibility should lie with the University, not CRU. The leaked e-mails appear to show a culture of non-disclosure at CRU and instances where information may have been deleted to avoid disclosure, particularly to climate change sceptics. The failure of the University to grasp fully the potential damage this could do and did was regrettable. " [/COLOR]

Howzat???? So it was the failure of the Uni to "grasp fully" that their CRU employees were acting unethically... THAT is the big problem? Not the fact that the CRU people were actually acting unethically? So CRU gets a pass because their "parents" did not catch them pulling the cat's tail? WOW.

Un-frickin-believable. Democracy is dead, folks. Once the government refuses to admit errors in how their self-funded science is being done, then things will only become more totalitarian from here on out.

RMT

 

[TimeLord]

Re: And Now...UK Gov speaks on ClimateGate!

That was a disgusting read. Must say I agree with what you've said.

Also, you're right about more basic scientific education being needed. However, with people like those at CRU tainting the image of scientists, combined with education cuts in various places due to economic hardship, the future looks bleak.

House of Commons. Come on.