Directional language of before, after, and time's metaphors

Time Travel Paradox & Philosophy
1

Anyone ever noticed that, although we think about heading FORWARDS into the future, and looking BACK at the past, the usage of this metaphor is inconsistent? Because we also have the words BEFORE, which means both “in front of” and “at a time previous to” and AFTER, which means “at a time later than” and comes from the word AFT, meaning behind (spatially). Just a weird thing I noticed. Shows how unclear and unstable the general perceptual models of time are.

“All gods are false. Faith itslef is idolatry.”

Iain M. Banks, The_Crow_Road

2

Janus,
It is interesting that words used to discribe time are also used in refrence to location. Is there a connection to our understanding of time and spatiallity? Is it possible that the area in our brains where our spatial concepts are understood might also be the site where we experience our understanding of time?
Everything we perceive, understand or experience including a God (God spot-front temporal lobe) comes from a function in our brain.
And I don’t mean to diminish any religious experience by saying that because our brains make our perception of God possible, that it’s all in our heads. This is how we were created us to be. And in writing the “program” for the human brain, God was sure to include a way for us to have an experience of and with God.
Joanne

3

It’s not so much the instability of general perceptual models about time, but the general perceptual models of “words” are. Only in America can “fat chance” and “slim chance” mean the exact same thing. If we could gain a better perceptual understanding of “The Word”, the instability would disappear. Few people take into consideration that “words” have a force of their own. Simply calling another person a derogatory name can make that person “feel” like the name given. It literally travels across the space between us and impacts on whatever neuronal entities that are responsible for creating the “feelings” within us. Anyone who reads to any extent understands that even the written word can “create” and have a life of their own. In other “words”, communication itself is alive. We who are Christian call this “Word” the Son of God. If you can look beyond the natural skepticism of religiosity and all that it represents, you will gain an understanding of how
“we” really operate and how “time” really affects us. Only then can we really have any hope of traveling through, within or outside of time. Someone once wrote that anything the mind can conceive–it can achieve. All of present reality was once conceived in the mind. All of the greatest scientists who ever lived, first “saw” their models before they were ever able to build them. In another thread on this forum about global consciousness, many of the ideas of the future are being discussed “now” and will impact the thinking of those who don’t really “know” what they are looking for, but you can be assured that there is some “force” at work to see that it is conveyed to exactly the right person at exactly the right time. Some call it synchronicity, some call it spirit, some just call it blind luck. Whatever you call it, it achieves what everyone sees as inevitable. If we cannot “perceive” the possibility of the “NOW” that Biblical sources say that God exists in the past, the present or the future, then we will never “achieve” it. In the 60’s, every self-respecting “head” or “freak”–as we called ourselves back then because of our desire to seek out those things which did not fall into the mainstream of ideas, we all just “understood” that the present moment was the only reality. Only in the “now” did the past have any meaning and the future have any promise. These concepts were eventually corrupted by the “free love” and “free sex” movements and “turn on, tune out, drop out” as preached by Timothy Leary. As drug conscious as he was, he still perceived a City of God being built in outer space that would transcend time and space and take mankind out to the stars. True, he “saw” these things under the influence of LSD, but if you ask anyone who has experienced hallucinations–whether drug induced or not–those experiences were “more real” than the reality that they were used to. There are dimensions we are not perceptually aware of, communication that we cannot see, influences that are scoffed at. This doesn’t mean that they don’t exist or cannot be interacted with. This “reality” may be the only reality that has any true substance. Eastern religion calls it illusion, psychologists call it delusion, religion calls it confusion, moralists call it degradation. I like to think it’s illumination. It is not just a morality play when Jesus said to bless those who persecute you and call evil good. There is some real practical advice here. We are a pain-avoiding, pleasure seeking species. Only a God could conceive of embracing pain, avoiding pleasure, dying so that we may live. Our own preconceived ideas are what prevent us from seeing the truth of matters. God counsels us to "buy of me GOLD, tried in the fire–and eyesalve that you might SEE.

Zerubbabel–The Seed of Babylon

4

Very interesting stuff. In regard to the importance of words, study the Jewish Kabbalah. It is amazing. One of the teachings of the Kabbalah is that the letters of the Jewish alphabet actually have their own energy or a quote here by Edward Hoffman “Jewish mystics have celebrated the Hebrew alphabet as the manifestation of divine patterns of energy.”
Imagine that the words we speak carry with them divine energy. How would that impact your conversations? Or even your thinking.
It is logical that words would have energy. Spoken and written words are a physical expression of thougth. Language is the means by which we form our thoughts. And thought is the mental expression of quantum possibility. All of which is a form of energy. Our attention manifests at the physical level that which resides in a field of all possibility. And as an inventor imagines a new device, the energy flows and becomes action and words and expirements and finally a physical product that was brought into being initially by a thought which is expressed and communicated in the mind of the scientist through words.
Joanne

5

Joanne, that was written beautifully! Which brings me back to what I had previously posted about the Merkaba pattern and design being present in the human brain. Not only is our brain a fractal but the golden spiral of phosphorus is visible on MR and EKG/EEG scans during the thought process!

To back up here a bit so that you may grasp the importance of the Merkaba, is that when you say that the Hebrew alphabet is the manifestation of divine patterns of energy. THIS IS TRUE JOANNE! as the Hebrew letters are make of casted light shadows from within the Merkaba. (The Star of David) When the letters are in continual motion they are forming the golden spiral (DNA Helix.)

As we engage in thought the parts of our brain are activated thus firing with neurons and forming the golden spiral vortex pattern. (The Merkaba.)

I think that Sonofbabylon is correct in saying, <<In another thread on this forum about global consciousness, many of the ideas of the future are being discussed “now” and will impact the thinking of those who don’t really “know” what they are looking for, but you can be assured that there is some “force” at work to see that it is conveyed to exactly the right person at exactly the right time. Some call it synchronicity, some call it spirit, some just call it blind luck.>>

That was my post! and Hi Joanne!

CAT…

6

Well, I don’t believe that words have any intrinsic power. I think their power lies solely in the context and established patterns of their use. To me this is obvious; people of course can speak different languages which assign different ‘words’ to the same object/idea/what have you; I don’t see any underlying reason for their form. Also, writing is a purely human invention which is at best an adequate reproduction of spoken language. I don’t see how a written word, which is just a string of symbols arbitrarily chosen to represent sounds or ideas (in an ideographic script) could have anything more than a passing connection to the intrinsic reality of the thing.

PS, “the Hebrew letters are make of casted light shadows from within the Merkaba” is untrue. It can be easily shown that the Hebrew alphabet evolved from the Phonecian, just like the Greek and Roman alphabets. And the Phonecian alphabet, of course, evolved from yet earlier pictographic systems, which came from memory-aide systems, which originally came from drawings.

“All gods are false. Faith itself is idolatry.”

Iain M. Banks, The_Crow_Road

7

Writing and language are a human invention, but an invention created as a means to express thought. How would you describe thought? I see it as an expression of quantum possiblity. There is energy in all words which ever language is spoken. When we say “go” it produces a reaction. When we talk about time travel we are generating energy and intent.
My hope is that participation on this site does not end up as a forum to prove the existance of God. We all have our own perspectives on religion. Lets have fun with ideas and save any underlying agendas for other sites.

8

Janus:

before forwards, after back

You’re right, it is confusing. Whether it is forwards or back depends on the refference point you choose to measure from.

I think these words are a clue that time “goes both ways at once”. (and neither way at always for that matter).

This may be one of the times that “double-think” might actually be appropriate. (double-think = the ability to hold two contradictory thoughts in mind at the same time)

If it were software rather than language at issue here they would call it a bug…but only a dyed-in-the-wool trouble maker would be out and about de-bugging the Queens English.

9

Janus, You posted above,

<<PS, “the Hebrew letters are make of casted light shadows from within the Merkaba” is untrue. It can be easily shown that the Hebrew alphabet evolved from the Phonecian, just like the Greek and Roman alphabets. And the Phonecian alphabet, of course, evolved from yet earlier pictographic systems, which came from memory-aide systems, which originally came from drawings.>>

This is true Hebrew was originally evolved from the Phoenicians and Sanskrit in broken form passed down through generation of generation back from Adam and Eve and down to the line of Abraham. IT WAS PERFECTED AND CORRECTLY REITERATED BY THE FINGER OF GD (PILLAR OF FIRE) TO MOSES AT MOUNT SINAI ONTO THE STONE COMMANDMENT TABLETS. Which consists of the 22 letters of the known Hebrew alphabet today! These 22 letters can be made and formed when light shines through the fractal shape of the Merkaba! IT IS A LANGUAGE WRITTEN IN LIGHT!

LOOK FOR YOURSELF!

CAT…

10

LAST EDITED ON 17-Aug-02 AT 05:08AM (EDT)

Well well, if it isn’t Janus, I see you have returned. Long time no see… Well as it’s no surprise to you already, I’m still here doing my job as the TimeTravelActivist, kicking ass

You remember how that was, don’t you? Remember when I exposed your façade (twice) more then 3 years ago? Coming on here in pursuit of knowledge of answering conundrums you already arrogantly felt to know the answers to; to which you would cleverly use as a cruel entertainment ploy to use for your amusement and ridicule everyone on how pathetic and *&#! stupid in your eyes our answers were .

Awwwe yes, I was the only one to see through you back then and tell you off for it. And when you apologized and said it wouldn’t happen again, I knew you were full of shit and just saying that, and I was right :face_with_tongue: when you left this board cussing at us.

But enough with the reminiscing, that’s in the past, and this is the present. It’s good to see you back here though. Things have changed, new members have joined, and obviously your interest has been sparked to join in the discussion again. Hope to have a pleasant dialogue with you soon .

-TTA

11

Janus and nwww:
I think you might find this article of interest (see below website) - it talks about scientific experiments done on the human brain relative to brain waves and meditative/religious experience. It says something similar to what you stated, nwww. Enjoy! -roy

12

Hi Janus,

I hope thats not the case with you, that TTA is mentioning above?

Well in any event, I feel I kinda left you hanging when I said in my above posting, LOOK FOR YOURSELF!

I also noticed that when I clicked into your authorised member information, it said that one of your strong points was LANGUAGE!

Anyhow to lighten the load of what I said above I found a good web site that shows some excelent pictographic examples with the similarities quit visible!

For your interest check out this web site:

When the web site opens up look at the left hand side of the screen where more options open up and click into Anchient Hebrew and this will pull up a alphabet chart of utter amazement! You will clearly be able to see all resemblenses…

If I might add, a little secret…The ancient Paleo-Phoencian letters match the constellations! WOW!!! SHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

I have a web site for these, but however I think that you need to go on a journey for yourself to find this information and along the way you just might find other secrets…

CAT…

13

Hi Cat.

I looked at the site, and yes, it shows the evolution of the hebrew alphabet from the phoenician characters. Not via the hand of God or YHWH or Allah or whoever. Also, check out this site:

http://www.wam.umd.edu/~rfradkin/alphapage.html

Look at the “Evolution of the Phoenician Character Set” to see how these glyphs were descended from an earlier pictographic system. I fail to see any significant connexion to the constellations or the ‘Merkaba’. If you have a link that says otherwise, by all means post it! I’m not going to go out of my way to prove you right, after all.

PS I wouldn’t believe everything TTA says. He seems to have illusions of grandeur and conspiracy theories galore. If you want the truth, go back and read the archives.

“All gods are false. Faith itself is idolatry.”

Iain M. Banks, The_Crow_Road

14

Illusions huh?

You might be right about that Janus. But whether people believe anything I say or not because I am delusional, isn’t the issue here. It’s clear that with each passing day and every dialogue we have, leads to more and more of uncovering the truth of the very nature of Time Travel and the motives behind it. And that cannot be denied… All will be revealed in “TIME.”

Ultimately, perhaps someday proving all along of what I been saying about Temporal Manipulation.

TTA

15

LAST EDITED ON 21-Aug-02 AT 10:47PM (EDT)

LAST EDITED ON 21-Aug-02 AT 10:35Â PM (EDT)

Janus,

I detect the cocky attitude! You sound like you think you KNOW IT ALL, When infact you don’t!

Well here it is anyways, but I doubt you will be able to make the connection and see the significance?

Maybe others will?

http://home.dmv.com/~vincent/ancient.htm

This is also the same template that is used to measure the stars (constellations) mathematically Pythagorean style. And is the same method used by astronomy/astrology today, in not only measuring the stars but also farm fields and all architectural designs!

http://www.frontiernet.net/~imaging/pythagorean.html

Try this web site. I edited my posting, the other one didnt work.
http://astrosite.com/HC-MI.gif

Here is an example of an astrology chart that shows how the Pythagorean triangle measurements are used. The pictographic letters that are used around the template circle are similar to the old Paleo Phoenician/Greek alphabet. But strangly enough these letters can date back even furthur to similar cave petroglyth drawings and calandars of the stars revolvement around the sun.

These symbols were derived by what earlier humans on earth saw when they looked up at the starry sky. AND THE CARNAL KNOWLEDGE HANDED DOWN BY OUR EARLY ANCESTORS, (ADAM AND EVE.)

AND LIKE I MENTIONED ABOVE, THE MERKABA…

CAT…

16

Cat, are you a Gnostic? They also had ideas about the relationship between geometry and religion.

In any case, I don’t think you’re thinking logically. You may think I look cocky, but I think it’s because YOU think you know it all already, and I’m just a little pest interfering with your appreciation of the Grand Scheme of Things. But it takes only sparing application of the scientific method to pare away large portions of your ‘evidence’ (although I must admit your data seem to be rather randomly distributed).

  1. the pythagorean theorem is basic math. Of course it appears everywhere, because triangles are everywhere! Sure, Pythagoras, who mentioned it (although some cultures knew of it before him) also had (quite wacky) spiritual beliefs, but that doesn’t mean that it’s some mystical force. No, it’s just an equation they teach you in grade school. Next you’ll be telling me that there’s a spiritual journey in the reaction Acid + Base => Salt + Water.

  2. I think that generation of the Phoenician script from some grid pattern is laughable. I mean, I could produce all sorts of grids that would contain many different symbols like that. And the guy doesn’t even follow the lines properly - look at aleph, dalet, and samach for example.

    “All gods are false. Faith itself is idolatry.”

Iain M. Banks, The_Crow_Road

17

here are some the the words that bother me also; kit and kabootal as in “there goes the whole kit and kabootal.”

another is when someone is distraught and your giving them a hug, you say “there, there, it’ll be all right” THERE, THERE?? what’s up with that?

someone is a copycat, a COPYCAT? why not a copydog, copycritter, copybeetle. you know “monkey see monkey do” why isn’t someone a copymonkey?

“i couldn’t care less” makes sense, but when someone “could care less”? i don’t get it.

to keep this a little back into the time travel subject matter; “a stitch in time saves nine?” what the f*ck is that?

“COCKTAIL” this one absolutely frightens me.

18

Boot, you lost me???

Janus,

<<Cat, are you a Gnostic? They also had ideas about the relationship between geometry and religion.>>

Well if you know your history, it basically prooves it!

<<In any case, I don’t think you’re thinking logically. You may think I look cocky, but I think it’s because YOU think you know it all already, and I’m just a little pest interfering with your appreciation of the Grand Scheme of Things.>>

No actually on the contrary I LIKE IT! I dont claim to know all the answers either, but I certainly keep an open mind without stubborness and just don’t have a one sided view. Besides my father is very much like you, ALWAYS DEBATING!!! and trying to claim things arent as they seem and don’t mean anything! He raised me to be religious but I often feel he has an athiest view.

<<But it takes only sparing application of the scientific method to pare away large portions of your ‘evidence’ (although I must admit your data seem to be rather randomly distributed).>>

It can only be explained randomly in order to be understood largly!

<<1) the pythagorean theorem is basic math. Of course it appears everywhere, because triangles are everywhere! Sure, Pythagoras, who mentioned it (although some cultures knew of it before him) also had (quite wacky) spiritual beliefs, but that doesn’t mean that it’s some mystical force. No, it’s just an equation they teach you in grade school. Next you’ll be telling me that there’s
a spiritual journey in the reaction Acid + Base => Salt + Water.>>

This is true about Pythagoras! triangles are a given fact in NATURES MEASURMENT SYSTEM as everything in nature is FRACTAL!!! including the human body! Do you want me to put forth evidance on that too???

<<2) I think that generation of the Phoenician script from some grid pattern is laughable. I mean, I could produce all sorts of grids that would contain many different symbols like that.>>

Well first of all I don’t think your grid could contain thousands of years of history.

<<And the guy doesn’t even follow the lines properly - look at aleph, dalet, and samach for example.>>

Well it looks pretty close to me in relationship. Although they do appear to be distorted differently with alittle variations. As per the historians that study language, I think they have a better eye than us in recognising and distinquising and deciphering familiar patterns.

CAT…