Haber or Burriel: who owns the rights to Titor?

[NozeItAll]

message deleted

[Darby]

@NozeItAll

I have always wondered about Haber’s rights to the Titor story versus Raul Burriel’s (MOP). In the following post by Darby, it seems clear that Haber and the JTF have secured the rights to the story:

Quoting Darby from the TTI thread THE OTHER JOHN dated 01-28-2010: “Group Titor is lawyered up and have been lawyered up since 2003. They’ve copyrighted large parts of the story including the photos and diagrams originally posted on the Peanut Gallery and later on Anomalies.”

But after reading Raul Burriel’s post below (shortened for clarity), it sure sounds like he should be the one to have exclusive rights to Titor, not Haber:

Quoting Raul Burriel from the TTI thread TTI STOLE MY T-SHIRT IDEA dated 05-11-2006:
“…….Copyrights usually depend on ‘first use’ (that is, where the property first appeared) and where did John Titor ‘first appear’? That’s right, the Time Travel Institute. And who owns the Time Travel Institute? That’s right, I do. And, so, unless someone comes forth and claims to be the ‘real’ John Titor, ownership of John Titor and all associated products/merchandise fall to me……”

So why does Haber and the JTF supposedly have exclusive rights then?

NOZE

Actually “John Titor” as such never appeared here. The handle here was TimeTravel_0. John Titor appeared on Art Bell’s Post-2-Post forum.

All in all, however, there’s not much to copyright insofar as posts go. We all had our share of posts. The items that were copyrighted by the John Titor Foundation, LLC (Florida) were The Book, plus the logo, photos , drawings and schematics. They first appeared on the Doc’s EZ Board site (and a little later on The Peanut Gallery) where Boomer posted them. He posted them there because he was unsuccessful in attempting to post all of his items here. Both forums are long gone. EZ Board is now Yuku.

[Darby]

@NozeItAll

Thanks for your feedback, Darby.

I suppose you are right. That makes sense. And I get that the JTF has rights to their book, which is also copyrighted. But I am trying to reconcile that with MOP’s post:

So in your opinion then, was Raul Burriel mistaken when this comment was made? Also, how was the author of the Conviction of a Time Traveler book able to get a copyright on Titor if Haber has the rights?

As Buzzmaker correctly stated on Anomalies when asked the same questions - derivitives. You can post or otherwise create any literary work that you want, even if the story has been told before, just so long as you don’t copy and paste verbatum that which has already been published. Derivitive works have been published for centuries without fear of copyright infringement. If it were otherwise The Asylum movie production studio, the king of “mockbuster” movies, would have long ago been shut down.

But there is no question about who owns the copyright to The Book, logo, drawings and schematics. The copyright was filed with the US Patent Office in 2003 by the JTF.

From the USPTO database:

Type of Work: Text Registration Number / Date: TXu001126005 / 2003-10-27 Title: A time traveler’s tale : the story of John Titor. Description: 137 p. Copyright Claimant: John Titor Foundation, Inc. Date of Creation: 2001 Names: John Titor Foundation, Inc.

The logo, drawings and schematics are included in The Book. It makes no difference where they may have been originally posted. The law is on the side of the JTF. They have been issued a copyright on the material by the US government. Anyone who feels otherwise would be charged with the responsibility of convincing a jury that the JTF does not hold the right, not the other way around.

And note that the copyright holder is the JTF, not John Titor. Boomer has obviously assigned his rights to the company. Even if someone wanted to sue the JTF for copyright infringement just to be able to confront the actual author in court they cannot expect to discover the “real” author. The “real” author no longer holds the right and his/her identity need not be disclosed at trial. Disclosure would be a trial tactic for the JTF if they felt it necessary to protect their interest - and it would only happen with the consent of Boomer. It’s likely the JTF has a non-disclosure agreement with him. This doesn’t mean that Boomer sold off his rights. It just means that he formed a company and made the company legally “John Titor”. Larry Haber is the general manager and attorney for the JTF and Larry Haber would appear in court for the company, not Boomer.

The copyright can be challenged if someone has the time and money. And “the money” will not be cheap. I’ve been involved in radio comedy production where my company authored, recorded and shopped radio comedy only to find that a major radio personality, then at KMET Los Angeles, later re-recorded the material verbatim and made a bundle on it. Could I and my partners have sued him? Yep. We also shopped that idea to several attorneys. The average was $100,000 up front in attorney fees plus court costs and 33% to the law firm is we prevailed. We didn’t have the 100 grand up front to proceed. And this was almost 30 years ago. The costs have increased since then.

The situation would be about the same here. We faced a major radio star (who is still a major radio star). Anyone facing off with the JTF faces a major entertainment industry lawyer. Owning the name “John Titor” simply is not worth the effort. There’s no money to be made if you prevail. The JTF, after 10 years, hasn’t made a dime. (Larry - correct me if I’m wrong.)

So, what’s the point of claiming ownership?

[Transient001]

They are John Titor. Back in this place they have a saying, "If its walks, talks and smells like John Titor, then the Habers-Boomers are John Titor.

<>

Tsk, tsk, tsk…sorry it didn’t happen like that.

[Skarpz]

The beginning of the story goes something along the lines like this:

I am a mutlidimensional being. I have not time travelled yet, but I am John Titor.

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Thank you everyone for helping create the Titor Saga.

I am not out for money or to be famous. That was not my intent.

I am happy being poor and I’d rather be anonymous.

I don’t want any money from this because everyone online deserves credit for being the author of this story.

---

2015 = 2012

Welcome to the Future. It was all a hoax.

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Now for some B-52’s:

Thank you. Now go enjoy life. Smell the roses, enjoy a movie, play video games, laugh like there’s no tomorrow, and just have fun for a change. =D