A Paradox Question

[Cryosleeper]

Hi

I have a interesting question concerning whether or not a time travel paradox would possible occur if a person who has died and whom has been cryonically suspended is brought back to life in lets say 500 years and in addition lets also suppose that time travel has become a reality during this time. If the person whom was brought back to life through cryonics was to travel to the past and sign up his family members that had died before he was put into cryonics suspension (all of whom were not cryonically frozen upon their death originally but rather they were cremated upon their death, but now they will be cryonically frozen upon their death) would this possible create a paradox in the future when the time traveler returns in the future and has his family members brought back to life?

 

[Syzygy]

Greetings, Cryosleeper.

Of what science fiction family do you speak? What are the odds
of getting everyone in any group to agree on a single thing? One
of the things I hate most is going to bed and waking up with cold
feet, which says something about what would be my response.

Now that we've narrowed down the number of persons participating
in your hypothetical experiment, there's less about which to speculate.
One's spouse would be most likely to consent to such a thing in which
case their re/union is kismet.

Lille would agree.

That wasn't a bad coffee break.

 

[Darby]

Hi

I have a interesting question concerning whether or not a time travel paradox would possible occur if a person who has died and whom has been cryonically suspended is brought back to life in lets say 500 years and in addition lets also suppose that time travel has become a reality during this time. If the person whom was brought back to life through cryonics was to travel to the past and sign up his family members that had died before he was put into cryonics suspension (all of whom were not cryonically frozen upon their death originally but rather they were cremated upon their death, but now they will be cryonically frozen upon their death) would this possible create a paradox in the future when the time traveler returns in the future and has his family members brought back to life?

Of course it creates a paradox. You have History A: Burn the Brood. The thermodynamic information from those events left the crematorium, in part, as photons emitted during the burning process. When the time traveler decided to go back in time 500 years to reverse the thermodymanics (History B - Icicle the Off-Spring) the photons from the cremation were scattered across the Milky Way Galaxy in all directions in a 500 light year radius sphere. So the question is, given the speed of light limit, how does he whistle those photons back? The paradox? A fundamental violation of the laws of thermodynamics. Burning is considered to be an irreversible thermodynamic process for very good reasons.

You also have other paradoxes. In your scenario he goes into the past and prevents cremation. When it occured to him to do that, assuming that he was successful, chronologically the change had already happened 500 years ago. When he awakens from his frozen sleep that information is just arriving. So, where did he get the idea to change the past? If he was successful, cremation is not a part of his history. He even has the proof of success - Icicle Family Robinson is sitting in the freezer right in front of him. But if cremation is not a part of his history there's no reason for him to time travel back 500 years to prevent a cremation that never happened.

Now let's reverse the situation, shall we? Our Time Traveler Robinson is a bit of a scoundrel. Having just awakened to find his entire family likewise frozen but not yet awakened he discovers that the meager assets of the family have been invested for the past 500 years. What was once inconsequential is now a fortune beyond belief. The Plan: Go back 500 years and execute History C - Burn the Bitches. He wants it all for himself. Unfortunately it's the same deal. If they were frozen that's what happened 500 years ago. If he burned them in the cremitorium where's the evidence of success?

In both of the latter cases you still have a fundamental violation of the principle of relatiity - effect preceding cause. Either Special Relativity is correct or we have a big problem.

The old "Many Worlds" dodge isn't very useful above. Even in the otherwise "parallel" worlds there is a history that the time traveler is trying to change. The change might be hidden from his original universe but it isn't hidden from the parallel universe. "It's turtles all the way down" won't help.

 

[Syzygy]

Hi, guys.

There are other more obvious problems. Just a few:

Mechanical failure
for any number of reasons, e.g. power outages.

Limited liability -
What worldly contracts extend beyond the grave?

Cost -
It's expensive enough to keep horse semen frozen
little alone preserve corpses.

Lessened value of lives in general -
The trend is less for preserving lives,
protecting the unborn, disabled, elderly ...&c.

The lives of the living take precedence over the dead.
Therefore, there would have to be some compelling
motive for multiple generations, supposing there are
any, to comply.

 

[Florida_Jim]

It depends upon whether we live in a reality that allows paradoxes or not. Has anyone found evidence one way or the other? Perhaps in quantum physics experiments? I would sincerely like to know.

 

[Darby]

It depends upon whether we live in a reality that allows paradoxes or not. Has anyone found evidence one way or the other? Perhaps in quantum physics experiments? I would sincerely like to know.

Rather than ask others, have you done any research to find out for yourself? I don't mean doing PhD level physics experiments, I mean checking the literature. And I certainly don't mean checking JohnTitor_TarotCard_Numerology_AlienGreys_LizardMen_InfiniteZeroPointEnergy_HDR_Online.net. Perhaps LaNL/ArXiv? Rather than let others answer your curiosity, do some research for yourself. You may (or may not) have a bias but it's a lot more difficult to fool yourself than it is to be fooled by others.

Is there, in the literature, even one report of effect preceeding cause? Does the literature published over the past 108 years refute or confirm the principle of relativity?

 

[Syzygy]

Dizzie posted a pair of articles on the subject:
"Quantum correlations with no causal order"
and, based on Stephen Hawking's conjecture,
"The quantum physics of chronology protection."
Articles on Causality and Chronology | Time Travel Institute

 

[Florida_Jim]

Rather than ask others, have you done any research to find out for yourself?

Nope. I was just asking a question of the people who frequent this site. Although, "frequent" is a generous word. How's Anomalies these days Darby?

 

[Darby]

Anomalies is no more - at least as a forum site. That happened well over a year ago.

 

[Mylo.X.]

Lessened value of lives in general -
The trend is less for preserving lives,
protecting the unborn, disabled, elderly ...&c.

The lives of the living take precedence over the dead.
Therefore, there would have to be some compelling
motive for multiple generations, supposing there are
any, to comply.

Yes, you make a very valid point. The trend is VERY much in the favour of the living and society in general tends not to afford the same respect to the unborn and the elderly etc as it does to the healthy and the young.

 

[Syzygy]

Anomalies is no more - at least as a forum site. That happened well over a year ago.

Many things are anomalous.
What anomalies most interest you
would be a great topic for a thread.
Please start a discussion.

 

[Syzygy]

Yes, you make a very valid point. The trend is VERY much in the favour of the living and society in general tends not to afford the same respect to the unborn and the elderly etc as it does to the healthy and the young.

Mylo (another person who I'd like to
share something of interest in a thread),

People are too out of touch with nature
to recognize the natural order of things.
Other social creatures look to their eldest
whenever confronted with something new,
stand watch over each other and delight
in observing their young discover the world.
Wise elders are a great blessing, the wonder
of youngsters is magic and, of all people
whom I'd most like to be able to journey
anywhere, it would be the paraplegic.

Never do I dream of flying
without wishing the latter the thrill.
May they be higher in heaven.
Peace be with them and you.

 

[Mylo.X.]

Mylo (another person who I'd like to
share something of interest in a thread),

People are too out of touch with nature
to recognize the natural order of things.
Other social creatures look to their eldest
whenever confronted with something new,
stand watch over each other and delight
in observing their young discover the world.
Wise elders are a great blessing, the wonder
of youngsters is magic and, of all people
whom I'd most like to be able to journey
anywhere, it would be the paraplegic.

Never do I dream of flying
without wishing the latter the thrill.
May they be higher in heaven.
Peace be with them and you.

Hi, just wondering what it was that you wanted to share with me? (0r was it your last comment above?) Also, I remember you relating an experience that you likened to a "time-slip", where you and your partner were travelling along a highway/road/motorway. I cannot seem to locate that account.

 

[Einstein]

Mylo.X.

I remember that thread. I think it was labelled Carefree Highway.

Carefree Highway | Time Travel Institute

 

[Syzygy]

Mylo,

Things were quiet after the server change.
I asked you to share something new.
You posted a short film that we discussed.
Btw, I also appreciated the last 'short'.

Mylo.X.

I remember that thread. I think it was labelled Carefree Highway.
Carefree Highway | Time Travel Institute

The account isn’t to my liking for multiple reasons.
Firstly, dumbed by architectural ideations,

• I had too long been out of communication mode, i.e.
• writing seemed laborious. As
• too much work was left suspended,
• too hastily did I write. Later, whereupon
• hubby’s tummy and, thus, he growled for dinner,
• I was abrupt with Einstein.
• He was defensive. Discretional, I left unsaid:
• Significant, at the time, was our listening to radio.

However, as the radio was forgotten with the time slip,
and since it happened so long ago, it is too easy to leave
Carefree Highway bygone.

 

[Itheblaze]

See you're thinking in terms that the spirit/ghost can be frozen/put to sleep also. This body is just a vessel that houses the real us. Your body could be put to sleep for 5oo years, but the real you would come and go as you please. Ok, here we go. Your body has been asleep for 500 years. When they wake up your body, you/ghost jump back in it. You go back in time say 1000 years and gather all the sleeping bodies you want. Friends, family, pet hamster, whatever. Go back to your future and wake the bodies up. The spirits that have been haunting them all those years will jump back in them. The bodies have been alive in a coma like state all those years so their ghost would not be able to go to the great beyond because they haven't died yet. It can be done, but at what price.

 

[Mylo.X.]

Mylo.X.

I remember that thread. I think it was labelled Carefree Highway.

Carefree Highway | Time Travel Institute

Thanks Einstein for pointing me in the right direction.

 

[Syzygy]

See you're thinking in terms that the spirit/ghost can be frozen/put to sleep also. This body is just a vessel that houses the real us. Your body could be put to sleep for 5oo years, but the real you would come and go as you please. Ok, here we go. Your body has been asleep for 500 years. When they wake up your body, you/ghost jump back in it. You go back in time say 1000 years and gather all the sleeping bodies you want. Friends, family, pet hamster, whatever. Go back to your future and wake the bodies up. The spirits that have been haunting them all those years will jump back in them. The bodies have been alive in a coma like state all those years so their ghost would not be able to go to the great beyond because they haven't died yet. It can be done, but at what price.

You brought up a hypothetical situation whereof I hadn’t thought. Hypothetical,
because the process of cryonic suspension is limited to preserving the tissue of
cadavers. Whereupon the “life breath” leaves the body, the soul returns to God
(Ecclesiastes 12:7).

One’s actually sleeping that long and regaining consciousness would, within a biblical
context, involve his being judged fit to be raised after all has been made new, i.e. post
Revelation 21:1-4

The New Heaven and the New Earth.
1
a Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The former heaven and the former earth
had passed away, and the sea was no more.*
2
I also saw the holy city, a new Jerusalem,* coming down out of heaven from God,
prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.b
3
I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, God’s dwelling is with the human
race.c He will dwell with them and they will be his people* and God himself will always
be with them [as their God].*
4
He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death or mourning,
wailing or pain, [for] the old order has passed away.”d

That anyone will prove so fit, immaculate, is highly speculative in view of Romans 6:23
“For the wages of sin is death[.]” Nonetheless, based upon your concept, a theme song.

 

[Metrocity]

I'm in New Jerusalem. I sinned so I deserve death? People here care about me so much they don't want me to leave. If I leave I die.

 

[Itheblaze]

Syzygy, let's put the Bible aside and talk science for one minute, ok? I'm going to start with a true story. I've known a married couple, out of Tampa, Fl., Debbie and Gordon, for years. Gordon was a die hard Agnostic. He believed that when we died any intelligent consciousness just ceased to exist. He wasn't a Christian, but he was a good man, and helped raise Debbie's 2 boys from a previous marriage. He died of cancer, and being a sensible man insisted that he be cremated. Three days after his death they had Gordon laid out on a table, about to be put in the crematory, when a very surprised Debbie sees Gordon's ghost jump out of his body and fly up and threw the ceiling. Never even turned to look at her. At that same time in Ocala, Florida, a good friend of theirs, Horace, was listening to records that Gordon used to like, having his own private good by to his friend. Well, as Horace was sitting on the couch Gordon just appears in the chair across from him. Gordon smiled lovingly and nodded as to say thank-you and goodby. Then he just faded away. Debbie and Horace got on the phone that night and figured it took Gordon's ghost about 2 min. to get to Ocala. You see, not every one's going to Heaven or Hell just yet. It's not time for the Great Judgment Day where the books will be open for every soul that lived upon the Earth. You ever see the movie Ghost? Some people have unfinished business. Time to go Bible on ewe/you now. In Luke 8:28 the devils begged Jesus not to torment them not for it was not their time yet. Their time will be at the Great Judgment. They spirits themselves can come and go upon the Earth as they please. So can departed people who are now spirit. Which means you can freeze a body for 500 yr but not its spirit. I think the spirit of that body would haunt it in till someone wakes it up 500yr in the future. Syzygy, for you personally I think you should read the lost book of Enoch. One of the many books our for-fathers choose not to put in the King James Bible. It explains the spirit world in detail.