A Paradox Question

[Mylo.X.]

Syzygy, for you personally I think you should read the lost book of Enoch. One of the many books our for-fathers choose not to put in the King James Bible. It explains the spirit world in detail.

Yes, the Book of Enoch is mentioned in the Old Hebrew Scriptures and possibly in the New Testament. Also the book of Jasher is mentioned in the Old Testament, which kinda hints at their legitamacy. I have not personally read these books, but numerous people have commented on how the book of Enoch fill the missing blanks (whatever that is supposed to mean).

 

[Syzygy]

I'm in New Jerusalem. I sinned so I deserve death? People here care about me so much they don't want me to leave. If I leave I die.

Greetings, Metrocity,

It is my understanding that only those who are redeemed on Judgement Day
will be judged worthy to experience heaven on Earth,
a New Jerusalem to be head by the Groom/Lamb or Son of God/ ...Jesus.
And to be judged worthy on Judgement Day is to be saved forevermore.
In fact, if you'll read the rest of chapter 21 that I referenced above,
you'll find an answer to your fallacious question in last sentence of Revelation 21:5-8:

5​

The one who sat on the throne* said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Then he said,
“Write these words down, for they are trustworthy and true.”e

6​

He said to me, “They are accomplished.* I [am] the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning
and the end. To the thirsty I will give a gift from the spring of life-giving water.f

7​

The victor* will inherit these gifts, and I shall be his God, and he will be my son.g

8​

But as for cowards,* the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers,
idol-worshipers, and deceivers of every sort, their lot is in the burning pool of fire and
sulfur, which is the second death.”h

 

[Itheblaze]

Hello Mylo X, Enoch is mentioned Genesis 5:24. And Enoch walked with God and was not, for God took him. Enoch is also mentioned in Luke 3:37 and in Jude 1:14. So he's mentioned in both old and new Testament. Jasher is only in the Old Testament in Joshua 10:13 and 2nd Samuel 1:18. The book of Enoch is a good read if you want to hear the legends of the spirit world.

 

[Syzygy]

Syzygy, let's put the Bible aside and talk science for one minute, ok? I'm going to start with a true story. I've known a married couple, out of Tampa, Fl., Debbie and Gordon, for years. Gordon was a die hard Agnostic. He believed that when we died any intelligent consciousness just ceased to exist. He wasn't a Christian, but he was a good man, and helped raise Debbie's 2 boys from a previous marriage. He died of cancer, and being a sensible man insisted that he be cremated. Three days after his death they had Gordon laid out on a table, about to be put in the crematory, when a very surprised Debbie sees Gordon's ghost jump out of his body and fly up and threw the ceiling. Never even turned to look at her. At that same time in Ocala, Florida, a good friend of theirs, Horace, was listening to records that Gordon used to like, having his own private good by to his friend. Well, as Horace was sitting on the couch Gordon just appears in the chair across from him. Gordon smiled lovingly and nodded as to say thank-you and goodby. Then he just faded away. Debbie and Horace got on the phone that night and figured it took Gordon's ghost about 2 min. to get to Ocala. You see, not every one's going to Heaven or Hell just yet. It's not time for the Great Judgment Day where the books will be open for every soul that lived upon the Earth. You ever see the movie Ghost? Some people have unfinished business. Time to go Bible on ewe/you now. In Luke 8:28 the devils begged Jesus not to torment them not for it was not their time yet. Their time will be at the Great Judgment. They spirits themselves can come and go upon the Earth as they please. So can departed people who are now spirit. Which means you can freeze a body for 500 yr but not its spirit. I think the spirit of that body would haunt it in till someone wakes it up 500yr in the future. Syzygy, for you personally I think you should read the lost book of Enoch. One of the many books our for-fathers choose not to put in the King James Bible. It explains the spirit world in detail.

Itheblaze,

I was pleased when you returned to the topic of this thread.
This discussion had so digressed by then that I had forgotten
the subject paradox pertained to cryonics. Your putting a soul
into that context invited references to scriptural precedents.
When relevant, short passages from the bible tend to be most
conducive to meaningful exchanges here at TTI. So, it would
be best to confer about the books of Henoch (Greek Enoch) in
a separate thread. Likewise, the subject of spiritual apparitions
is overly broad for cursory mention herein.

Sandwiched in the above quote are statements directly related
to the topic. Those ordered statements, first, reflect beliefs similar
to mine, second, affirm a point made in my last response to you,
third, apply to spirit and, fourth, assert a highly circumstantial
likelihood to be a certain outcome. Granted that I, too, have cause
to believe spirits of persons with “unfinished business” tend to
wander awhile postmortem, your closing sentence presumes it
possible that man will ever be able to either slumber for centuries
or be raised from the dead.

Your closing sentences infer differences between what Catholics,
Protestants and others regard truly inspired books, i.e. which books
truly belong in the bible. Such a conclusion is loaded. Because it
has long been a great source of contention, it invites a debate that
is probably inappropriate at this forum. That is to say that my
experience here disinclines me from getting into a such a debate
at TTI.

 

[Itheblaze]

As usual, one of your fancy, sophisticated, talks. Wasn't nothing wrong with me putting in the ghost story to make my point in the end.

 

[Syzygy]

As usual, one of your fancy, sophisticated, talks. Wasn't nothing wrong with me putting in the ghost story to make my point in the end.

Itheblaze,

Your story illustrated a point in a way that disinclined
my sympathetically sharing a similar experience. I was
point blank about it. That is all.

In regard to my "fancy, sophisticated, talks,"
conciseness usually suits my purposes. A couple of
instances where that was recently the case:

Example I of II -
My providing the hypertext in my last post saves me
from figuratively reinventing the wheel, i.e. the study,
a result of much research and thought, serves to guide
substantive discussion. It sets a basis of understanding
and, along with it, a standard for practicing apologetics
(a disciplined defense of a particular position). That that
is my standard isn't entirely why you last faulted my style
of writing. Practice of polemics peeves the opinionated
in ways predictable, e.g. stated in advance was the fact
that much literature is erroneously attributed to (H)enoch.
That is precursor to qualified expertise on the matter. As
a matter of determining what is or isn't inspired by God,
it is best traditionally approached with the formality due
reverence for the Almighty.

Example II of II -
My insistence upon human decency is often misconstrued
here, e.g. you know what happened when I last encouraged
a TTI member to exercise self-constraint as one respectful
human being to another. The subject of civility versus one's
behaving like a male dog was made a religious issue. In spite
of such tactics by louts, I believe men meant to evolve less as
brutes and more as spiritual creatures.

 

[Syzygy]

[...](whatever that is supposed to mean).

In deed, too much is left to individual interpretation on the subject of religion
at secular websites such as this one. That is why I insist on documentation
versus being told what to think/believe and even how to be/act/write ...&c. by
those whom would have me waste time either trying to be like them or arguing.
Instead, I would sooner reciprocate courteousness.

Please accept my belated thanks for your customary thoughtfulness.

 

[Itheblaze]

Lol. Whoooo Nelly, yes sir, we got us a live un' here. You are quite courteously, condescending. Let me guess, You make up your bed with hospital corners, have all your spices alphabetized lined up purrty, and insist on the 4 square allowed tissue policy. As far as the book of Enoch goes, it was just a suggestion. I've read it, and it does make some interesting statements about the spirit realm. Goodness, you're all furred up for no reason. Taking these posts a little to seriously ain't cha.?

 

[Gpa]

Syzygy;
Do be careful. That's a rather high pedestal you've placed yourself on.


Itheblaze;
I see two problems with the OP's and your premises.

First, from a purely biological view point, the likelihood of ever being able to "bring back to life" a cryogenically frozen human body is remote. The individuals currently frozen in the "cryo-labs" around the world are paying, "post mortem", rent and extortion in the extreme hope that future science will be able to bring them back to life. Their morbid fear of death is only lining the pockets of what should be considered charlatans and snake-oil salesmen. I highlight the post mortem term because, you must be "dead" before you can be cryogenically frozen. Today, and as I believe it will be in the future, dead is dead. Even if it became possible to effectively freeze a human body without causing massive cell damage (which all the current processes do cause) you would have to be frozen while still alive. Most likely, we will have to discover Borg technology, specifically the nanoprobes that actively seek out and repair damaged tissues, because there will be damage from the freezing process. The design of a cell makes it inevitable. I doubt it will ever happen.

Secondly, from a spiritual view point, when you die, many believe the spirit leaves the body and returns to it's creator. Once it has gone, it does not return. The cases of a "near death" experience are exactly that, "near" death. I have never heard of a case where an individual, that has been properly clinically diagnosed as "brain dead", has recovered. Of course, there have been incorrect determinations of brain death but, no one has been declared brain dead and has been so for several days and returned to life.

Once again, Nature prevents a paradox by simply making it impossible to cause the paradox.
But, this is just my opinion. I will have to wait to see if it occurs during my life time.

 

[taz135]

itheblaze i believe our subconscious lives on its like dreaming...back to the topic of time travel interestingly Carl Sager once said time travellers may be here but may not be recognized as time travelers.

 

[Syzygy]

Syzygy;
Do be careful. That's a rather high pedestal you've placed yourself on.

There is no example better than the son of God
and none whose example is so hard to follow.
Still, each of us has his cross to carry.
All of us stumble. We will pick ourselves up,
brush off the dust,
and start over again and again until,
the Lord willing,
we can lay down our burdens forevermore.
May we all ultimately exclaim:
Hallelujah! Free at last!

't is the season to be jolly.

I should feel flattered by the lengths
to which some would go to pull me into discourse
after I've been away longer than usual.

Welcome, TAZ135.

Peace.

 

[Itheblaze]

There ya go! That's the spirit Syzygy! Have one O' those rum eggnogs for me too.

 

[Mylo.X.]

I am going to digress drastically from the topic at hand to wish you all a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

 

[Itheblaze]

Right back at cha. And here's our family tradition of Elephant Stew:

One medium Elephant
2 rabbits
2lg onions
brown gravy
salt&pepper to taste
several cloves of garlic
and a 5th of good Irish whiskey

Cut Elephant into bite size pieces. This should take about 2 months. Cover with brown gravy. Cook over kerosene fire for 4 weeks at 465deg. Serves 3,800. If more people then expected, add 2 rabbits. Do this only if necessary, as most people prefer not to find hare in their stew.

TTI enjoy the Holidays

p.s. If you can't get an Elephant just drink the whiskey, it's all good.

 

[vodkafan]

Instead, I would sooner reciprocate courteousness.

.

For all your high sounding ideals, you do not even have the common decency to say sorry when you have offended someone. You wrongly called me a pervert and you owe me an apology.
In the past , I have apologised to you when I thought I may have upset you. In what way are you reciprocating my courteousness ?