Darby
Epochal Historian
dAdvocate,
You weren't very specific here but it's still an interesting question that's been referenced before.
Sure - it is possible that the person in 2000-2001 known here as TimeTravel_0 and the person known as John Titor on Art Bell's old Post-2-Post forum were not the same person and that the person who sent the two faxes to Art in 1998 was yet another person. Neither this site nor Bell's site publicly displayed the IP address of posters to the members. And there's the further complication that many of "Titor's" posts were actually made by Pamela Moore who stated that she was copy/pasting from emails sent to her by Titor/TTO.
But I don't believe that you'll find very many believers or non-believers who accept the alternative that they weren't all one person (or members of what is known as Group Titor). The evidence is pretty clear that only one person was the "voice" of Titor/TTO even if it was a group of people who provided the totality of the creative work.
That doesn't mean that Titor/TTO didn't have more than one online personality. Quite some time ago I received very credible (though incomplete) information from an individual who was clearly in a position to know the facts first hand that on at least one site where Titor/TO was posting that he had registered on the site under another handle long before Titor/TTO started posting. Titor/TTO was using a proxy service to log onto his favorite sites. But once in a while he apparently forgot to proxy in and his real IP was registered in the site logs.
This is one of the fallacious arguments posed by would-be TT's. That they use proxy services like The Cloak to log in so that they can protect themselves from the Big Bad Govmit. There is no protection. All this accomplishes is to mask their actual IP from you, me and the SysOp. If someone is using the Internet for a purpose that is deemed to be illegal or a threat to national security the govmit can use tools that aren't generally available to you or me and they can, given sufficient time and log ins, trace the person to a real IP no matter what proxy they are using. Moreover, at least four people in addition to Pamela Moore have access to Titor/TTO's actual IP. Those four people are Art Bell, Keith & Mary Rowland (the SysOps for Post-2-Post), Raul Burriel (the owner of this site). Titor used a commercial ISP for his regular email ([email protected]). AOL obviously knows who held that account and has either credit card or checking account information, address and phone number, social security number and credit check information for the account holder. Art Bell has the phone number and addres of the person who sent in the original faxes in 1998. They were included in the faxes. He didn't read them on the air. The fax log also contained the calling phone number (it's my understanding that if you faxed Art but had Caller ID Block turned on he would not accept the faxes). Remember that at the time that the faxes were received Art was receiving death threats to both himself and his (now deceased) wife. It was because of those threats that he "retired" in 1998 and missed reading the faxes the first time that Titor faxed him. When he came back from retirement he took precautions to assure his family's safety. Anonymous faxes weren't part of his security plan.
The "It's for my protection that I use a proxy" dodge is used only to keep you from discovering what other handle the would-be TT is using on the site.
I'm not a believer but I was posting when Titor/TTO was posting. I also took over as the moderator of the forum that used to be Art Bell's time travel forum on Post-2-Post (we moved the discussion to Anomalies.net when Bell closed down P2P). The participants in the email experiment were all members of Anomalies at one time.
To my knowlwdge only two participants ever weighed in online. According to Pamela Moore others communicated with her via email but didn't want to post their thoughts.
FloridaJim was one participant. He said that some buildings that he didn't recall suddenly appeared in his neighborhood. He also said that the Burger King logo changed without his noticing it before.
Pamela said that she experienced strange dejavu's. She said that the other people who communicated with her privately also said that they experienced strange effects.
The problem here is that they experienced the "strange events" in 2001 - three years after they would have received the emails in 1998. The other peroblem is that they decided to believe what they wanted to believe rather than believe what Titor/TTO told them would be the case. He was very specific. He said that the email experiment would have no effect on them and that it would only affect people in some alternate universe.
Sure - it's possible. But the "evidence" provided by Titor/TTO argues against that theory. Its not as if Titor is from the deep distant future. He's a comtemporary person who would be alive and well in Florida (or Utah if you believe Mom Titor's book) today. He also said that his undergraduate degree is in contemporary US history. There's no reason to believe, after reading all of his posts, that his definition of "civil war" in America is any different than what you or I accept as the general definition.
But...
Because there was no civil war in 2004 or 2005, as stated by Titor/TTO on two different sites, there are some people who would like to redefine "civil war". This goes back as far as 2003-2004 when some old hands declared that a civil war in virtually any country on the planet fit the bill. Specifically, some people have tried to define a US civil war as to include a civil war in Iraq.
On the other hand Titor/TTO said that the civil war in the US would be very apparent to everyone by 2008. That's just one year from now. Remember, he didn't say that the civil war starts in 2008. He said it started in 2004 or 2005 and by 2008 even the deaf, dumb and blind would be in the middle of it such that they can't deny that it is going on.
At this point in time do you hear of bands of masked revolutionaries roaming the streets of your community at night assassinating police officers, school teachers, government officials, bombing government buildings, etc? And have you seen any of his precursors to the revolution (Weekly Wacky Waco Indicents occuring at an increasing rate until they will become a weekly event in the US by 2008) - have you seen just one Waco indicent such that you don't have to redefine the meaning to fit any incident that you want to fit the description?
In 2002, 2003 and 2004 I asked members of my forum to define what a Waco incident is so that we have an agreed upon criteria against which we could test different incidents. Not a single believer was willing to define what such an incident entails even though the details of the Black Panther's Shoot-out, SLA Shoot-out, Waco and Ruby Ridge are readily available online.
You weren't very specific here but it's still an interesting question that's been referenced before.
Sure - it is possible that the person in 2000-2001 known here as TimeTravel_0 and the person known as John Titor on Art Bell's old Post-2-Post forum were not the same person and that the person who sent the two faxes to Art in 1998 was yet another person. Neither this site nor Bell's site publicly displayed the IP address of posters to the members. And there's the further complication that many of "Titor's" posts were actually made by Pamela Moore who stated that she was copy/pasting from emails sent to her by Titor/TTO.
But I don't believe that you'll find very many believers or non-believers who accept the alternative that they weren't all one person (or members of what is known as Group Titor). The evidence is pretty clear that only one person was the "voice" of Titor/TTO even if it was a group of people who provided the totality of the creative work.
That doesn't mean that Titor/TTO didn't have more than one online personality. Quite some time ago I received very credible (though incomplete) information from an individual who was clearly in a position to know the facts first hand that on at least one site where Titor/TO was posting that he had registered on the site under another handle long before Titor/TTO started posting. Titor/TTO was using a proxy service to log onto his favorite sites. But once in a while he apparently forgot to proxy in and his real IP was registered in the site logs.
This is one of the fallacious arguments posed by would-be TT's. That they use proxy services like The Cloak to log in so that they can protect themselves from the Big Bad Govmit. There is no protection. All this accomplishes is to mask their actual IP from you, me and the SysOp. If someone is using the Internet for a purpose that is deemed to be illegal or a threat to national security the govmit can use tools that aren't generally available to you or me and they can, given sufficient time and log ins, trace the person to a real IP no matter what proxy they are using. Moreover, at least four people in addition to Pamela Moore have access to Titor/TTO's actual IP. Those four people are Art Bell, Keith & Mary Rowland (the SysOps for Post-2-Post), Raul Burriel (the owner of this site). Titor used a commercial ISP for his regular email ([email protected]). AOL obviously knows who held that account and has either credit card or checking account information, address and phone number, social security number and credit check information for the account holder. Art Bell has the phone number and addres of the person who sent in the original faxes in 1998. They were included in the faxes. He didn't read them on the air. The fax log also contained the calling phone number (it's my understanding that if you faxed Art but had Caller ID Block turned on he would not accept the faxes). Remember that at the time that the faxes were received Art was receiving death threats to both himself and his (now deceased) wife. It was because of those threats that he "retired" in 1998 and missed reading the faxes the first time that Titor faxed him. When he came back from retirement he took precautions to assure his family's safety. Anonymous faxes weren't part of his security plan.
The "It's for my protection that I use a proxy" dodge is used only to keep you from discovering what other handle the would-be TT is using on the site.
I'm not a believer but I was posting when Titor/TTO was posting. I also took over as the moderator of the forum that used to be Art Bell's time travel forum on Post-2-Post (we moved the discussion to Anomalies.net when Bell closed down P2P). The participants in the email experiment were all members of Anomalies at one time.
To my knowlwdge only two participants ever weighed in online. According to Pamela Moore others communicated with her via email but didn't want to post their thoughts.
FloridaJim was one participant. He said that some buildings that he didn't recall suddenly appeared in his neighborhood. He also said that the Burger King logo changed without his noticing it before.
Pamela said that she experienced strange dejavu's. She said that the other people who communicated with her privately also said that they experienced strange effects.
The problem here is that they experienced the "strange events" in 2001 - three years after they would have received the emails in 1998. The other peroblem is that they decided to believe what they wanted to believe rather than believe what Titor/TTO told them would be the case. He was very specific. He said that the email experiment would have no effect on them and that it would only affect people in some alternate universe.
Sure - it's possible. But the "evidence" provided by Titor/TTO argues against that theory. Its not as if Titor is from the deep distant future. He's a comtemporary person who would be alive and well in Florida (or Utah if you believe Mom Titor's book) today. He also said that his undergraduate degree is in contemporary US history. There's no reason to believe, after reading all of his posts, that his definition of "civil war" in America is any different than what you or I accept as the general definition.
But...
Because there was no civil war in 2004 or 2005, as stated by Titor/TTO on two different sites, there are some people who would like to redefine "civil war". This goes back as far as 2003-2004 when some old hands declared that a civil war in virtually any country on the planet fit the bill. Specifically, some people have tried to define a US civil war as to include a civil war in Iraq.
On the other hand Titor/TTO said that the civil war in the US would be very apparent to everyone by 2008. That's just one year from now. Remember, he didn't say that the civil war starts in 2008. He said it started in 2004 or 2005 and by 2008 even the deaf, dumb and blind would be in the middle of it such that they can't deny that it is going on.
At this point in time do you hear of bands of masked revolutionaries roaming the streets of your community at night assassinating police officers, school teachers, government officials, bombing government buildings, etc? And have you seen any of his precursors to the revolution (Weekly Wacky Waco Indicents occuring at an increasing rate until they will become a weekly event in the US by 2008) - have you seen just one Waco indicent such that you don't have to redefine the meaning to fit any incident that you want to fit the description?
In 2002, 2003 and 2004 I asked members of my forum to define what a Waco incident is so that we have an agreed upon criteria against which we could test different incidents. Not a single believer was willing to define what such an incident entails even though the details of the Black Panther's Shoot-out, SLA Shoot-out, Waco and Ruby Ridge are readily available online.
