So all the theories speak of the “speed of light” required for time travel… but is that not only describing “viewing” time travel… speed will get you to a place far away very quickly… what i am talking about is being in one time at one point then being in another time at a point that is chosen… i can do this… many more can do this. it will come when numbers and measurments are not used. we are constructed in a world where measurment, math and science is all we know. let go of what we know and look further. keep up the good work. Jay
Actual Travelling
- Thread starter j1697
- Start date
What concepts taken for granted, or laws of physics do you think we should consider unlearning?
Can you explain more about how you’re suggesting we might be able to learn more, by setting aside some of the math, measurements, and science we take for granted?
Can you explain more about how you’re suggesting we might be able to learn more, by setting aside some of the math, measurements, and science we take for granted?
Darby
Timekeeper
It is not true that “all the theories speak of the ‘speed of light’ required for time travel.” Certainly, time travel to the future does not require traveling at the speed of light. Traveling at any speed with respect to an observer involves unsynchronized clocks. It’s the basis of Special Relativity.
Traveling to the past, on the other hand, requires a theory that allows for such travel. So far there is no such theory. General Relativity has solutions that seem to indicate time travel to the past. However the number of solutions to General Relativity are infinite. If you fully analyze those solutions they end up describing universes that are not this particular universe. It might be wonderful that in some other universe you can time travel to the past but that’s not much help if you live in this universe.
And frankly, you really don’t want to attempt time travel by moving at the speed of light. That’s a fairly straight forward Special Relativity problem if taken at a very crude form. It involves the Lorentz Factor (Gamma) which tells you the ratio between proper time Tau (your clock) and coordinate time t (the stationary clock you observe as you pass by it).
Gamma = 1/sqrt(v^2/c^2)
v is your velocity relative to the stationary clock
c is the speed of light
This will tell you how fast you observe time passing outside your “light” ship. As you can see, in the denominator sqrt(v^2/c^2) in the limit as v —> c the denominator gets smaller and smaller until just before v=c it gets vanishingly small and the passing of time, from your perspective, outside the ship begins to approach ticking off time infinitely fast. At the instant that v=c time outside the ship will appear to be running infinitely fast. You will no longer experience time. Instead you will instantly be confronted with the end of the universe.
Will this actually happen? No one knows. Special Relativity and General Relativity are classical theories - they do not in their basic forms include quantum mechanical effects. But you don’t have to travel at the speed of light to be instantly vaulted to the end of the universe. It takes a few milliseconds for your brain to register outside events so if you’re traveling so close to the speed of light that it takes a nanosecond to advance to the infinite future you’ll never know.
As to “it will come when numbers and measurements are not used” I’m sorry but that simply isn’t true. It is true that the world doesn’t care about what we say or do because it will follow the laws of physics in any case. But mathematics is the language of physics. Mathematics is used to both unambiguously describe physical systems and theories and to extend our theoretical understanding of physical systems and theories based on the implications of the math of current tested theories. No math = no physics language = no unambiguous description of the theory. Why does math and only math properly describe physics? No one knows. We do know that it is the only way for physicists to properly communicate their theories. As Professor John Baez lists in his Crackpot Science Index, "20 points for every statement along the lines of “I have a wonderful physics theory. I just need a mathematician to figure out and write the equations for me.” To understand physics you have to understand the math underlying physics. You don’t invent a theory and have someone else, who does understand the math, fill in the blanks for you.
The final proof of the pudding is the experiment. No matter how beautiful and elegant your thoughts are, what you’ve let go of or how super your mathematics is; if you run the experiment and it fails the theory is wrong. Be satisfied that you learned something new - this theory is not the answer.
Traveling to the past, on the other hand, requires a theory that allows for such travel. So far there is no such theory. General Relativity has solutions that seem to indicate time travel to the past. However the number of solutions to General Relativity are infinite. If you fully analyze those solutions they end up describing universes that are not this particular universe. It might be wonderful that in some other universe you can time travel to the past but that’s not much help if you live in this universe.
And frankly, you really don’t want to attempt time travel by moving at the speed of light. That’s a fairly straight forward Special Relativity problem if taken at a very crude form. It involves the Lorentz Factor (Gamma) which tells you the ratio between proper time Tau (your clock) and coordinate time t (the stationary clock you observe as you pass by it).
Gamma = 1/sqrt(v^2/c^2)
v is your velocity relative to the stationary clock
c is the speed of light
This will tell you how fast you observe time passing outside your “light” ship. As you can see, in the denominator sqrt(v^2/c^2) in the limit as v —> c the denominator gets smaller and smaller until just before v=c it gets vanishingly small and the passing of time, from your perspective, outside the ship begins to approach ticking off time infinitely fast. At the instant that v=c time outside the ship will appear to be running infinitely fast. You will no longer experience time. Instead you will instantly be confronted with the end of the universe.
Will this actually happen? No one knows. Special Relativity and General Relativity are classical theories - they do not in their basic forms include quantum mechanical effects. But you don’t have to travel at the speed of light to be instantly vaulted to the end of the universe. It takes a few milliseconds for your brain to register outside events so if you’re traveling so close to the speed of light that it takes a nanosecond to advance to the infinite future you’ll never know.
As to “it will come when numbers and measurements are not used” I’m sorry but that simply isn’t true. It is true that the world doesn’t care about what we say or do because it will follow the laws of physics in any case. But mathematics is the language of physics. Mathematics is used to both unambiguously describe physical systems and theories and to extend our theoretical understanding of physical systems and theories based on the implications of the math of current tested theories. No math = no physics language = no unambiguous description of the theory. Why does math and only math properly describe physics? No one knows. We do know that it is the only way for physicists to properly communicate their theories. As Professor John Baez lists in his Crackpot Science Index, "20 points for every statement along the lines of “I have a wonderful physics theory. I just need a mathematician to figure out and write the equations for me.” To understand physics you have to understand the math underlying physics. You don’t invent a theory and have someone else, who does understand the math, fill in the blanks for you.
The final proof of the pudding is the experiment. No matter how beautiful and elegant your thoughts are, what you’ve let go of or how super your mathematics is; if you run the experiment and it fails the theory is wrong. Be satisfied that you learned something new - this theory is not the answer.
- Thread starter
- #4
@Darby
thanks… in the unlearning… clarity will be found. this distraction from time travel will be worthy. chat gpt. or AI in general. within a very very surprsingly short period… it will become assistant to all of us… some will fight… some will fear… but it will come. the use of outselves will be on a whole new level… equations will be for memories… numbers wont be required… measurements will only be like a thumb to a hand. or legs to a body. science will be just giggling theories that we speak out to remind us of former ways… i speak of the near future … i see things on route that will be an agressive change that not everyone will like… time travel included. the only thing i can truly guarantee is that it will be like nothing anyone could ever imagine from this timeline. im at so much peace understanding that so much of the world that has been wrong and influenced will soon be corrected and allowed to flow as it was meant. amazing things come… we will not have to wait for long. its so very nice chatting here. have a wondeful thought.
@Num7
specifics of what will change is very broad. if i could cover it with… anything that is required for us to standarise anything… from numerals to alphabet or graphical. will just not be needed. the calculations for all things will be faster and more accurate than my spelling here lol there will be interface soon where we will not even need typing or speach input. as far and as fast as you can think things… the outcome will be advised, generated and offered. it brings me so much peace to see the future come. my hopes are that others will soon see the changes and find the same peace. i wish i could give a strong enough analagy to share my passion here… it is just very nice for me to outlet as little as i have. thankyou for that.
thanks… in the unlearning… clarity will be found. this distraction from time travel will be worthy. chat gpt. or AI in general. within a very very surprsingly short period… it will become assistant to all of us… some will fight… some will fear… but it will come. the use of outselves will be on a whole new level… equations will be for memories… numbers wont be required… measurements will only be like a thumb to a hand. or legs to a body. science will be just giggling theories that we speak out to remind us of former ways… i speak of the near future … i see things on route that will be an agressive change that not everyone will like… time travel included. the only thing i can truly guarantee is that it will be like nothing anyone could ever imagine from this timeline. im at so much peace understanding that so much of the world that has been wrong and influenced will soon be corrected and allowed to flow as it was meant. amazing things come… we will not have to wait for long. its so very nice chatting here. have a wondeful thought.
@Num7
specifics of what will change is very broad. if i could cover it with… anything that is required for us to standarise anything… from numerals to alphabet or graphical. will just not be needed. the calculations for all things will be faster and more accurate than my spelling here lol there will be interface soon where we will not even need typing or speach input. as far and as fast as you can think things… the outcome will be advised, generated and offered. it brings me so much peace to see the future come. my hopes are that others will soon see the changes and find the same peace. i wish i could give a strong enough analagy to share my passion here… it is just very nice for me to outlet as little as i have. thankyou for that.
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