Alas, Babylon

[noob]

Guys, I dont know if you know this but if you think titor is for real all you need to do is read the novel "Alas, Babylon". I'm not gonna ruin the book for everyone, but here's some striking similarities through the first couple of chapters:

-The main character of the book (Randy Bragg) lives in a rural area central Florida next to a major army base when Russia launches a nuclear bomb there. John Titor claims to live in the EXACT same area.

-In the book, the new capitol of the United States is moved to Omaha, Nebraska. John Titor also claims that the new Capitol of the U.S. is Omaha, Nebrska

-The entire book is showing how Randy and his family support and help each other to get through the war. John Titor repeatedly stressed how important family is in his time

-John Titor claimed that one of the main reasons for the war was the instability of the western governments. This is why the war was caused in the book as well.

-Randy was stated in the book to be a very strong believer in the U.S constitution. John Titor also makes many references and claims to strongly agree with the U.S. constitution


Believe what you want but John Titor is a fake.

 

[Florida_Jim]

I was thinking of that book just a few days ago but I couldn’t remember its title – thanks! I read “Alas, Babylon” in the late 80s and remember the protagonist’s need to adjust his lifestyle – using a straight razor, eating only canned food and going to bed hungry every night. I did remember that it took place in Florida but didn’t recall how similar it was to Titor’s story. The first sentence, “In Fort Repose, a river town in Central Florida…” smacks of Titor’s “Fort UF” and tree houses on a large river. I’ll have to reread it now – good find!

I understand your statement, “Believe what you want but John Titor is a fake.” I’ve heard it espoused many times for nearly three years. It’s often an emotional reaction to a potentially troubling situation. After all – if he wasn’t a fake – we might be on the verge of hell on Earth. The thing is, we can’t say for sure the guy wasn’t a time-traveler.
We might be right in saying he took much of his story from a book or a movie. We might be right in saying the photos he presented were faked. We might be right in saying his purported physics was full of holes. We might be right in saying he’s a liar. Unfortunately, that doesn’t make us right in saying he wasn’t a time-traveler. A time-traveler could (and probably would) be in the past to affect change. That would require heavy doses of lies, probably combined with enough truth to sway the intended target(s) toward believing the lies.

So far, no one has proved Titor is a time-traveler but neither has anyone proved he isn’t. Too many grasp at rhetoric and circular reasoning to support their point of view but still there is no proof.

 

[John]

It doesn't matter if he traveled in time or not. He is telling lies to get people to do what he wants them to. That makes him dangerous and not the kind of person one should associate with. If he is a time traveler, and he did come back here to spread lies, who knows what he is trying to accomplish, he may be trying to enslave the human race. Although if he is not, he might just be trying to get a following of people to do his bidding for his immediate gain.
Either way, he is not a good person, and should be trusted by noone. Lieing is just not what good people do.

 

[garbagebag]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh pop goes the bubble I was in.

/ttiforum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Siekly]

Although im an open-mind person I agree with you when you say that John Titor is a fraud.
I didnt know about that book called "alas, babylon" and i can see that he copied part of his stoy from that book. I think he is a fraud, although he knows a lot about physics, computer and human behavior etc. I would say he was not a common little kid fraud, in my opinion he was a fraud who knew very well about stuff.

He said: "A large point of contention seems to be the "flashes" of light that appear to be gunfire that were recorded from the aircraft flying over the compound. The FBI has stated that these flashes were sunlight reflections. I find that rather interesting since the camera was not a visible light camera, it was a thermal camera. If the federal forces learned anything from WACO it was to install more reliable suppressors on their automatic weapons and don't use flash grenades that leave shell casings after the fire."

One of the reasons i think he was a fraud is because he talks with details about the WACO and Elian Gonzales reports. How can a guy from 40 years later know about these two things? is like if anyone from this time knew very well about small things that happened in the 60s. As far as i know the Elian Gonzales report was forgotten months after Elian was sent back to the jail-like island called Cuba under that bloody dictator fidel. Anyways he talks very detailed about the WACO event. Wasnt he busy trying to survive and shooting enemies? to read about something that happened decades ago like the elian gonzales and waco events? i would understand if he knew very well about WW2 (because i also know a lot about it).. but about waco and elian gonzales? wtf?

He sounds like those far right militia guys from the rural parts of the USA, who believe the USA government is repressive and its against its own people... funny, i guess he doesnt know what repression really is, i bet he hasnt heard or read about Cuba or North Korea, etc. He was right about some stuff on the way people behave these days, i agree with him in that, etc.

I dont wanna make this longer, but in conclusion i think this was a very well prepared fraud that took time and a lot of imagination (although he copied part of his story from that book "alas, babylon").

BTW im very open-minded person, but you dont have to believe everything that is said.

 

[Darby]

noob,

You are right about "Alas, Babylon" - his story came directly out of that 1959 Pat Frank novel.

A slight correction, though. Omaha is a central part of the novel but it does not become the capitol...it is destroyed. Denver becomes the capitol.

Titor took at least 20 plot elements directly from "Alas, Babylon."

Both Titor’s story and “Alas, Babylon”:

1. Take place in Central Florida,

2. Is set Near MacDill AFB,

3. Is about a post apocolyptic nuclear war world,

4. The US and European cities are nuked by Russia into the stone age,

5. Half of the U.S. population is dead,

6. The name of the novel and the theme of Titor’s story indicate that the large U.S. cities are the seat of evil,

7. The protagonist owns a medium sized orange orchard and eats lots of oranges,

8. The protagonist laments the loss of and misses hearing recorded music,

9. The protagonist is a military officer,

10. The protagonist forms a shotgun militia,

11. The town where the story takes place is “Fort Repose” in “Alas, Babylon” and “Fort UF” (University of Florida) in Titor’s story

12. The town in each story is situated along a Central Florida river,

13. The town in each story is a suburb of Orlando,

14. Omaha plays a very central role in the story,

15. Capitol of the U.S. is moved to a mid-west city,

16. Having bicycle tires is mentioned as being very important more than once,

17. Carrying your own water is central idea

18. Everything important is written on a typrwriter,

19. A central character is widowed because of the war,

20. A teenaged boy carries a shotgun in the militia

BTW: I've been waiting a long time for someone else to make the "Alas, Babylon" connection. I've been holding onto that one for over 18 months. I read "Alas, Babylon" the first time almost 35 years ago. Boomer's story sounded familiar to me as he was posting here in 2000 but I couldn't put my finger on it. It wasn't until early 2002 that it hit me...and I went to my bookshelf and pulled out AB and re-read it.

I'm glad to see that someone other than me has actually read one of the four definitive Cold War nuclear nightmare classics (AB, On the Beach, Fail-Safe and The Bedford Incident.)

 

[creedo299]

If this is a novel played out to thespian realms, then it is a very well played hand.

The props alone, are worth I would say at least one thousands dollars.

There is also funny interaction between PM and JT, which is by conservative judgment, contiguous.

There are also the actions of GV, who extols a connection to the Zohar Astrians, as well as a poster with some aspects of the Mages, holding hands with a child.

This was posted in Anomalies older web issues about two years back.

There have been allot of odd moves, associated with the JT debacle, such as the Ongs Hat web site, which a poster who post here, female, had lots of knowledge of, right away.Wasn't PM?

Something is very funny, almost orchestrated about this whole affair?

The last issue to be asked about the JT debacle, is were the pay-stubs issued by some agency, in order to make this whole thing go?

I don't care at this point.

As far as I'm concerned this is like an old freighter, that has sprung a leak and is slowly sinking, while the Coast Guard looks on.


No comment Darby.

 

[glugglug]

If we're going to debunk based on this, lets get it all straight and limit it to true correlations.

2. Is set Near MacDill AFB
13. The town in each story is a suburb of Orlando

MacDill is 96 miles from Orlando... hardly a suburb of it. The town where Titor grew up and where his parents are is in Tampa. "Fort Florida" or UF where Titor supposedly went to college is over 110 miles from either city. Interesting with everything being so much more localized that he did not attend "Fort South Florida" which would be much closer to Tampa/MacDill

 

[creedo299]

With all due respect to you and the nature of your post, you can not say this, sir.

This is so, as not all the facts are in yet?

 

[Darby]

glugglug,

“After all, we’ve got Jax Naval Air…Homestead and Miami…Eglin…and MacDill and Tampa to the southwest…McCoy and Orlando are right at the front door, only forty miles off.” (pg. 17) "Alas, Babylon, Perennial Classics edition, published 1999 (15th edition)

Where these places are located IRL isn't important. It's where Randy Bragg says they are in AB and what Titor has to say about them that are important.

But "suburb" is a relative term. For instance, I live in Santa Barbara - 96 miles from Los Angeles. We are considered to be living in the Greater Los Angeles Basin...a suburb of Los Angeles.

Even that's not important. What's important is that Boomer took at least 20 plot elements out of AB and made an entirely new story from them. But those elements are the basis of his story and they are easily recognizable.

 

[Firepaw]

Everything about AB is true. Titor really copied it. I sorta believed /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif in the beginning when i first heard about Titor, but now i see your points. I am kinda gullible but not really. But sometimes about what Titor says I believe. too..hard... ah.. dunno. Even so, i am not sure if Time Traveling really works. Who knows? Almost anything's possible.

 

[creedo299]

Okay' what about the cost of the props involved, the time for the physics verification which was really advanced and the cost of the photos, plus manuals made?

Im not asking here if the JT saga was true or not, but who wrote the cheque for this and who had financed this?

The cost had to be at least a thousand alone, if not more...?

 

[Darby]

Dan,

Okay' what about the cost of the props involved, the time for the physics verification which was really advanced and the cost of the photos, plus manuals made?

I do have the answers to those questions. I'm waiting for further verification and details. But the answers are very mundane. Let's put it like this...

If you wanted to produce a nice four color advertisement and you worked for a major graphics production company how difficult would it be?

 

[creedo299]

Thank you very much Darby.

 

[Darby]

Dan,

You're welcome. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Here's a bit of an addendum to my last post:

Now suppose that you not only wanted to produce a nice four color photo ad, you wanted to use it in a website and on your website you wanted some animated graphics and a montage slide show.

What if "you" aren't just one person who works in the graphical arts industry, but a group of people working in varing industries? The individual members of the group each has specific talents and expertise when combined can be used to build a very professionally produced website.

 

[creedo299]

One of my foundations was advertising and the understanding of this.

This would mean to fund this, one would need considerable funds.

El Governmentea.....?

I knew it.I knew it all along and it stunk like it.

 

[Darby]

Dan,

Considerable funds for what? All you see in his photos are a CD geiger counter that costs less than $50 and a military style metal crate with a couple of bells and whistles. You can't see inside.

Cliff may be right about the schematic - which means $0.10 to scan the page.

He could produce the entire host of props for under $100.

The most expensive part of his entire set-up would have been the $21.95/month for the AOL account.

 

[creedo299]

Still the main holding case for the entire unit.

Nobody seems to be able to come up with this case i.d. or make?

The reason is that the case might have a current manufacture after the year 2003, which could be any date.

There is also the second unit in the seat that is yellow and black, what is this?

It is also funny about both said Steven and Ardon Krep having both hand held displacement units, to where their function is similar in nature, however the information appears in squewed time.

You did not deliver all of the information that you had promised, which I had thought would have been considerable.

I was looking for photo-props, technology and a lot of other variables.

 

[bodiless99]

Ok, but just to throw a bone of contention in: What if Alas Babylon was dictated or written by a time traveller? /ttiforum/images/graemlins/devil.gif

 

[Seeker01]

Was there any mention in the book about China sending a man into space? Titor did in February of 2001. Just a thought.