Ancient Cultures - Advanced Technology

[melroxanne]

I am just wondering what everyone's thoughts are about ancient technology...

Could a civilization have existed hundreds of thousands of years ago that had technology not unlike our own? Could we be mistaken about what we know of history? Could it be that the ancient "stories" of advanced civilizations were more than just stories? See the link below and let me know your opinion...

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_historia_humanidad_3.htm

 

[KerrTexas]

I believe that ancient technology was more advanced then commonly believed. However, it has been pointed out, which has to be considered... where is the "physical" evidence any ancient technology ?

It would seem that someone, somewhere, would have found some sort of evidence, even if fossilized.

The only fossils found ( that I'm aware of...) are of ancient lifeforms.

I can't help but wonder if we try to put understanding in terms of what we have now...for instance, we use particular components to manufacture our technological devices.

IF some ancient cultures had advanced technology that used entirely "natural" components, then perhaps these components merely became natural appearing deposits, with us none the wiser.

Interesting to note, that if some of the known ancient cultures were as primitive as described, it is amazing that they had some sciences figured out to a degree that only now we are beginning to understand with everything we have on hand now.

IF we have trouble duplicating some of the accomplishments of numerous ancient cultures...then how in the world were they able to acheive the amazing things they did ?

I believe that they were far more in tune with nature than we are...this era polluted by "artificial" constructs.

I would be very interested to know what might possibly by hidden beneath the ice of Antarctica. I imagine that there may be a few awesome surprises locked away within the depths of the ice.

I wrote within a thread here about a Native American Tribe that was known to exist along the Coast of what is now Texas. This particular tribe, It is said that their warriors were over 6 feet tall, which was a tad unusual for the cultures of the time.

So where did this culture come from ? Why were they so different than all of the other cultures existing at the same time in the region ?

That they lived along the Coast is also an interesting consideration...were they survivors of a culture that suffered from some sort of demise ?

There are certainly many, many unanswered questions, and it seems that the more we learn, we end up with more questions then answers.

 

[melroxanne]

You may very well be right about ancient cultures using technology that we are unfamiliar with now so therefore we believe they were not technologically advanced cultures. However, how can we explain this:

"In 1936, while excavating ruins of a 2000-year-old village near Baghdad, workers discovered mysterious small vase. A 6-inch-high pot of bright yellow clay dating back two millennia contained a cylinder of sheet-copper 5 inches by 1.5 inches. The edge of the copper cylinder was soldered with a 60-40 lead-tin alloy comparable to today's solder. The bottom of the cylinder was capped with a crimped-in copper disk and sealed with bitumen or asphalt. Another insulating layer of asphalt sealed the top and also held in place an iron rod suspended into the center of the copper cylinder. The rod showed evidence of having been corroded with an acidic agent."

Quoted from: http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_11.htm

An ancient battery...

Also, there is a theory about crystals being used in ancient cultures to store information much like our computers do today. What about these wonders of the world Crystal Skulls? In the article exerpt shown below, it can be concluded that ancient people used these skulls as a way of storing information and if we, in modern times, can "figure them out", maybe we could have the key to our true history, instead of speculation...

"There are many who state that crystal skulls have healing properties, transmit energy, have the ability to convey information or are repositories of ancient wisdom like a Universal library. The understanding of computer technology, quartz and piezoelectricity may be keys to explaining these phenomena, and may one day help us to unlock the secrets and mysteries of crystal skulls.

Current crystal skull theory should marry the scientific understanding of the natural properties of quartz with the history and wisdom of our ancient civilizations. As crystal skulls re-emerge, what the ancient ones believed to be very real is now thought to be merely a myth or a legend, but may turn out to be a prophecy.

If indeed the crystal skulls are receptacles for stored information, much like our modern computers, then the best way to discover the true history and theory of crystal skulls may require exploration through meditation to access and retrieve information from the crystal skulls themselves, using techniques like our ancestors did to unlock the secrets and mysteries embedded in the crystal skulls."

Quoted from: http://www.crystalskulls.com/crystal-skull-theory.html

 

[melroxanne]

I would be very interested to know what might possibly by hidden beneath the ice of Antarctica. I imagine that there may be a few awesome surprises locked away within the depths of the ice.

I would very much be interested as well... If the theory of an ancient "pole shift" is correct, we could be looking in all the wrong places for proof of our ancestors. "Digging in" to all the ice-covered land on earth would be very informative, I'm sure! Personally, I think we, in modern times, jump to too many conclusions about the unexplained. We assume that humans just all of a sudden became an "advanced" civilization in the past few thousand years. What if it is something that humans have been capable of all along but got lost due to some major catastrophe in the past? Just speculation....

 

[KerrTexas]

You read my mind. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

That was one of the points brought up about the Battery. This was discussed with the creation of Heiroglyphs in locations where there is no light. There is no evidence of soot or of any kind of flame being used as a light source.

One of the Temples in Eygpt has images carved into the rock walls, and these images have been said to be of lightbulbs.

This is where the question of "physical" evidence come into play.

There just doesnt seem to by any. Nothing ( we know of ) has been discovered revealing that anything advanced ( by our standards ) was used. Batteries, yes..a few. But no wires, no lightbulbs, no broken glass, nothing else. Yet.

From what I understand, there is still quite a bit of ancient Eygpt still buried within the sand.

Regarding the crystal...

I agree with you.

I have a feeling that quartz was used for multiple purposes, and when the proper application is discovered, that there is information contained within the crystals used by many ancient cultures, including the skulls, which may be ancient version(s) of the Library of Congress and contain all sorts of astounding information.

 

[melroxanne]

One of the Temples in Eygpt has images carved into the rock walls, and these images have been said to be of lightbulbs.

This is where the question of "physical" evidence come into play.

There just doesnt seem to by any. Nothing ( we know of ) has been discovered revealing that anything advanced ( by our standards ) was used. Batteries, yes..a few. But no wires, no lightbulbs, no broken glass, nothing else. Yet.

From what I understand, there is still quite a bit of ancient Eygpt still buried within the sand.

I have seen those images and they do most certainly look like lightbulbs... However, who is to say that those lightbulbs were made of glass... Who's to say they were made at all the way we think of lightbulbs to be made?

"Yet" being the key word above. It almost makes me wish I would have chosen a different career path... Maybe one in archaeology rather than information technology, haha... :D

I like the way you think Kerr, not to quick to buy into irrational belief, not so uptight to dismiss everything! A man after my own heart!

Edited to fix my grammar.... :oops:

 

[melroxanne]

Wow Kerr, I just saw that you are, in fact, an archaeologist! What is it like, have you made any amazing discoveries?

 

[Twighlight]

An ancient battery...

Maybe......but there's no real evidence that they were ever used as such. It's just as likely that they are simply what they appear to be...containers for vinegar. Also, the suggestion by some that they were used for electro-plating materials does not fit with the fact that there were already far more effective methods for coating materials at that time.

What is certain is that the Greeks had discovered steam power 2300 years ago. Though they used it merely to power small toys, and never really grasped the full potential. My own feeling is that given just another 100 years of Greek civilization, the industrial revolution would have occured over 2000 years ago.....but it was not to be.

 

[Twighlight]

I wrote within a thread here about a Native American Tribe that was known to exist along the Coast of what is now Texas. This particular tribe, It is said that their warriors were over 6 feet tall, which was a tad unusual for the cultures of the time.

There's supposedly a legend in South America of a white bearded god, who visited the continent way before Cortez arrived......indeed it is one of the reasons Cortez was himself regarded as a god.

 

[KerrTexas]

Wow Kerr, I just saw that you are, in fact, an archaeologist! What is it like, have you made any amazing discoveries?

I will say its been an on and off affair for me, with distractions along the way through-out the years. Although, even when I was not on an "official" project, Anthropology and Archaeology are those things that are always done, naturally.

A sense of wonder and mystery about the past...as when hiking in the wilderness and there always seems to be a sense that "something" intriguing or mysterious exists just over the next ridge or hilltop.

It was well known that little ol'me would suddenly vanish when with a group, the others knowing that something of interest caught my attention and I was off to investigate. Many a time others would turn to ask or make a comment to me, to discover I was gone, off on my own adventure in the pursuit of ghosts of the past.

The first professional project I participated with was in the Mojave Desert in an area known as Black Canyon. Our goal was to record as many petroglyphs as possible before they were destroyed, either by vandals or from weathering.

My primary area of interest is in petroglyphs, specifically the Medicine Wheel or Sacred Circle.

As far as any discoveries I can claim as my own...all of the endeavors were a team effort, so any and all discoveries are a shared accomplishment.

During the searching phase of the Black Canyon Project, we were divided up into groups of three.
We then were individually given our own section(s) to search, and I was assigned this one particular section AND as I was searching along a ridgeline, I walked around a large rock that had caught my attention, was astonished to find this...

Wilson G. Turner was the Archaeologist in charge, I was his assistant at the time...he came rushing over when he was told about this particular discovery. The reason being, this is one of the more extensive inscriptions we found in the area.

What we did, was mark the location of any inscriptions found, to come back later and fill out a more detailed description, the location, and photograph each of the discoveries.

The next step was to transfer the images within the photographs. We inked out by hand a drawing of every one of the inscriptions. All relative information was then compiled and published in a report.

Since I was the one who discovered the petroglyphs as seen in the photo above, I was given the responsibility of handling all the details surrounding it. I was given the task of inking out the inscriptions myself, and compiling all related information about it.

There is a funny story attached to that endeavor, which I would be happy to PM to you, if you wish.

Our findings and reports are still avialable through the San Bernardino County Museum :

27(2) 1979. PETROGLYPHS, A FURTHER STUDY, THE 1978 REPORT ON THE BLACK CANYON PROJECT OF THE MOJAVE DESERT, W. G. Turner.

29(1) 1981. PETROGLYPH STUDY EXPANDED: THE 1979 REPORT ON THE BLACK CANYON PROJECT OF THE MOJAVE DESERT, W.G. Turner & B.S. Trupe.

30(4) 1983. PETROGLYPH STUDY DEVELOPING, THE 1980 REPORT ON THE BLACK CANYON PROJECT OF THE MOJAVE DESERT, W.G. Turner & B.S. Trupe.

38(1) 1991. HALLORAN SPRING PETROGLYPHS , W.G. Turner, and THE VAN DYKE PAPERS: HISTORIC ROUTES IN THE MOJAVE DESERT, W.Chambers.

40(2), 1993. TECTONIC SYNTHESIS OF SAN GORGONIO PASS & SAN TIMOTEO BADLANDS, D.M. Morton & J.C. Matti; OPAL CLIFFS SITE G, A PETROGLYPH STUDY, W.G. Turner; ABSTRACTS FROM PROCEEDINGS, 1993 DESERT RESEARCH SYMPOSIUM.

41(1,2), 1994. THE ROCK ART OF BLACK CANYON, W.G. Turner.

Currently, I am researching Medicine Wheel/Sacred Circle inscriptions, trying to trace they're origins and influences on numerous cultures. Hard not to be distracted with other discoveries along the way.

To this day no one knows what the petroglyphs of Black Canyon mean, or who created them. Many of the inscriptions of Black Canyon date back some 12,000 plus years ago. The mystery of Black Canyon is something that never quite leaves anyone that experiences them, but becomes part of them, for the rest of their lives.

To address the what it's like question :

It is like...

Actually traveling back in time. Holding an artifact in my hand that was crafted and used by someone "thousands" of years ago brings up all kinds of thoughts and emotions.

The day I found the large rock, and quietly stood gazing at all the inscriptions, there are no words that can describe the wonder and awe of that moment.

 

[melroxanne]

I dont think that there ever was a civilization with technology that is better or equal to what we have now because that would of required roads, transportation, trade, advance materials science, advance mechanics, mining technology not to mention mathematics that as far as we know the ancients did not have.

The key there being, as far as we know....

How can we possibly be so arrogant as to believe that we know EVERYTHING about the past when new discoveries are being made everyday. Not to mention the fact that there are continents covered entirely by ice that we cannot even explore...

 

[melroxanne]

Maybe......but there's no real evidence that they were ever used as such. It's just as likely that they are simply what they appear to be...containers for vinegar. Also, the suggestion by some that they were used for electro-plating materials does not fit with the fact that there were already far more effective methods for coating materials at that time.

True, there is no real evidence of their usage, but interestingly enough, in 1940, an engineer at the General Electric High Voltage Laboratory used the designs and details of the battery to build a replica that, in fact generated half a volt of electricity. See the exerpt below from http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_11

"In 1940, Willard F.M. Gray, an engineer at the General Electric High Volatage Laboratory in Pittsfield, Massachusetts, read of Konig's theory. Using drawings and details supplied by German rocket scientist Willy Ley, Gray made a replica of the battery. Using copper sulfate solution, it generated about half a volt of electricity.

In 1970s, German Egyptologist, Arne Eggebrecht built a replica of the Baghdad battery and filled it with freshly pressed grape juice, as he speculated the
ancients might have done. The replica generated 0.87V. He used current from the battery to electroplate a silver statuette with gold.

This experiment proved that electric batteries were used some 1,800 years before their modern invention by Alessandro Volta in 1799.
It also seems that the use of similar batteries can be safely placed into ancient Egypt, where several objects with traces of electroplated precious metals have been found at different locations. There are several anomalous finds from other regions, which suggests use of electricity on a grander scale."

What is certain is that the Greeks had discovered steam power 2300 years ago. Though they used it merely to power small toys, and never really grasped the full potential. My own feeling is that given just another 100 years of Greek civilization, the industrial revolution would have occured over 2000 years ago.....but it was not to be.

Fascinating, I did not know of the Greek's steam power, I will have to research that a bit. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[KerrTexas]

There's supposedly a legend in South America of a white bearded god, who visited the continent way before Cortez arrived......indeed it is one of the reasons Cortez was himself regarded as a god.

There are several "interesting" figures that give pause as to who they may have been...

Quetzalcoatl is one. He has quite a few simularities to Thoth of Eygpt.

Then there is Pahana of the Hopi's : Pahana (or Bahana) the "Lost White Brother".

"The legend of the Pahana seems intimately connected with the Aztec story of Quetzalcoatl, and other legends of Central America. This similarity is furthered by the liberal representation of Awanyu, the horned or plumed serpent, in Hopi and other Puebloan art. This figure bears a striking resemblance to figures of Quetzacoatl, the feathered serpent, in Mexico. In the early 16th century, both the Hopis and the Aztecs seem to have believed that coming of the Spanish conquistadors was in fact the return of this lost white prophet. "

( source : Hopi Mythology - Wikipedia )

Then there is this artifact found in Moundville, Alabama :

I find the eye in the center of the hand interesting, seems that I've seen that image elsewhere.

And the pair of snakes...Hmmmm ?

We cant forget about the Birdman artifact discovered in Monks Mound in Collinsville, Illinois.

The " Birdman of Monks Mound " artifact has image of a winged man inscribed onto one side of the artifact, and snake scales on the reverse side of the tile.

There is so much that we just dont know. That many of the ancient cultures may have had more extensive contact seems to be there...but the differences bewteen them are a puzzle. IF Eygpt influenced any of the South American cultures, there really hasnt been anything concrete found linking them.

The symbology used by the different cultures is said to bear absolutely no simularities at all.

However, this statement made by a Mayan elder can be found within a text written by Friar Diego de Landa in the year 1566 :

"... Some old men of Yucatan say that they have heard from their ancestors that this country was peopled by a certain race who came from the East, whom God delivered by opening for them twelve roads through the sea. "

And then this from a text entitled " A SABOBA ORIGIN-MYTH " written in 1902 and refers to the Saboba Indian Tribe located near the Hemet region of Southern California :

"... Before my people came here they lived far, far away in the land that is in the heart of the Setting Sun. But Siwash, our great God, told Uuyot, the warrior captain of my people, that we must come away from this land and sail away and away in a direction that he would give us. Under Uuyot's orders my people built big boats and then with Siwash himself leading them, and with Uuyot as captain, they launched these into the ocean and rowed away from the shore. There was no light on the ocean, Everything was covered with a dark fog, and it was only by singing as they rowed that the boats were enabled to keep together.

It was still dark and foggy when the boats landed on the shores of this land, and my ancestors groped about in the darkness, wondering why they had been brought hither. Then, suddenly, the heavens opened, and lightnings flashed and thunders roared and rains fell, and a great earthquake shook all the earth. Indeed, all the elements of the earth, ocean, and heaven, seemed to be mixed up together, and, with terror in their hearts and silence on their tongues, my people stood still awaiting what would happen further. Though no voice had spoken they knew something was going to happen, and they were breathless in their anxiety to know what it was.

Then they turned to Uuyot and asked him what the raging of the elements meant. Gently he calmed their fears and bade them be silent and wait. As they waited, a terrible clap of thunder rent the very heavens, and the vivid lightnings revealed the frightened people huddling together as a pack of sheep. But Uuyot stood alone, brave and fearless, facing the storm and daring the anger of Those Above. With a loud voice he cried out 'Wit-i-a-ko!' which signified 'Who's there? What do you want?'

But there was no response. The heavens were silent! the earth was silent! The ocean was silent! All nature was silent!

Then with a voice full of tremulous sadness and loving yearning for his people Uuyot said: 'My children, my own sons and daughters, something is wanted of us by Those Above. What it is I know not. Let us gather together and bring "pivat," and with it make the big smoke and then dance and dance until we are told what is wanted." So the people brought pivat--a native tobacco that grows in Southern California--and Uuyot brought the big ceremonial pipe which he had made out of rock, and he soon made the big smoke and blew the smoke up into the heavens while he urged the people to dance. They danced hour after hour until they grew tired, and Uuyot smoked all the time, but still he urged them to dance.

Then he called out again to Those Above, 'Wit-i-a-ko!' but still could obtain no response. This made him sad and disconsolate, and when the people saw Uuyot despondent and downhearted they became panic-stricken, and ceased to dance, and began to cling around him for comfort and protection. But poor Uuyot had none to give. He himself was saddest and most forsaken. of all, and he got up and bade the people leave him alone, as he wished to walk to and fro by himself. Then he made the people smoke and dance, and when they rested they knelt in a circle and prayed. But he walked away by himself, feeling keenly the refusal of Those Above to speak to him. His heart was deeply wounded.

But as the people prayed and danced and sang, a gentle light came stealing into the sky from the far, far east. Little by little the darkness was driven away. First the light was gray, then yellow, then white, and at last the glistening brilliancy of the sun filled all the land and covered the sky with glory. The sun had arisen for the first time, and in its light and warmth my people knew they had the favor of Those Above, and they were contented."

And then there is this :

The mysteries abound !!!

 

[KerrTexas]

Another little tid-bit to consider regarding Ancient Cultures - Advanced Technology :

"In Egypt, deep under the sand in some places, large areas with green glass have been found. It was origionally thought that the glass came from perhaps a rather large meteor impacting there but later scientists decided due to the size of the hole created by the impact, a meteor of that size wouldn't have created enough heat to cause the sand to turn to green glass so far from the impact area. A nuclear weapon, however, would have done this. "

New York Herald Tribune on February 16, 1947:

" When the first atomic bomb exploded in New Mexico, the desert sand turned to fused green glass."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Something BIG happened to cause people to cross both the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans in the ancient past, as per their own accounts.

What was the BIG event ? Does the Green Glass in the sands of Eygpt provide a clue ?

The Mayan image, it is rather obvious why the man in the boat is rowing away...since there is an erupting volcano in the carving. However...was it really an erupting volcano, or was the creator of the image portraying what he "thought" had happened ?

 

[melroxanne]

During the searching phase of the Black Canyon Project, we were divided up into groups of three.
We then were individually given our own section(s) to search, and I was assigned this one particular section AND as I was searching along a ridgeline, I walked around a large rock that had caught my attention, was astonished to find this...

Amazing! Also, I would LOVE to know the story behind it! You can PM me whenever...

Currently, I am researching Medicine Wheel/Sacred Circle inscriptions, trying to trace they're origins and influences on numerous cultures. Hard not to be distracted with other discoveries along the way.

To this day no one knows what the petroglyphs of Black Canyon mean, or who created them. Many of the inscriptions of Black Canyon date back some 12,000 plus years ago. The mystery of Black Canyon is something that never quite leaves anyone that experiences them, but becomes part of them, for the rest of their lives.

I will definitely have to do some searching into the petroglyphs of Black Canyon! I always love to learn more about ancient history! I could imagine it being difficult to stay focused on one particular type of artifact when there is so much else beckoning to be discovered, haha! It sounds like you picked a very rewarding career, and I must say, I am little jealous that you get to experience such amazing glimpses into our past. From what you describe, maybe archaeology is the key to today's "time travel". Maybe it's not possible to go to the future or to have a "time machine" (and I certainly don't believe any of the silly claims on here...), but from what you say, just holding or looking at a piece of history like you describe is like traveling to the past, even for a minute. :D

 

[Twighlight]

The mysteries abound !!!

That vessel looks a little like the 'Vimana' described in the Vedic literature. Ostensibly regarded as a 'boat' of sorts....except the legends have it that it could fly and engage in arial battles ! Indeed, it was supposedly equiped with powerful weapons that could destroy entire cities.....and sound similar to atomic weapons. When Openheimer quipped his famous quote " I am become death, the destroyer of worlds "........he was quoting from that literature.

 

[Twighlight]

Fascinating, I did not know of the Greek's steam power, I will have to research that a bit.

The device was called an aeolipile and was made by Hero. It was essentially a small copper sphere with two pipe outlets sticking out at a tangent. When water in the device is heated, the steam emmited from the pipes causes the sphere to rotate. This was basically an ancient Greek toy. I think if they ever realised the real power that steam contained, it could have become so much more.

 

[KerrTexas]

Interesting to note; Is that it seems that many "advanced" ancient cultures have "birdmen" involved with they're cultures. Thoth, Quetzalcoatl and the "birdman" of Monks Mound seem to share similar accounts of contributions to the cultures they influenced.

An ancient individual witnessing a flying craft of some sort, how would he/she describe the occupants of the craft, using the terminology and understanding(s) from his/her "mind" ?

Regarding Thoth...I did a bit more contemplating on him in this thread :

Thoth - Possible Time Travel Candidate

That these "birdmen" were remnants of much older civilizations is a possibility. There are numerous accounts of encounters with strange beings in several remote regions around the globe. The descriptions all seem to be of a similar people.

This linked article contains the tale of three strange "beings".

Zone of Silence & The Three Amigos

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My question is one of "where" the civilizations/cultures came from ?

The "land bridge" crossing seems to be the most popular, however, from the accounts as posted above, it seems that the origins of "some" cultures were NOT from people crossing over this "bridge".

Another question that comes to mind, is from the Saboba account of where they came from --building boats and rowing "East". Thinking about the Saboba legend of where they came from ;

Is it even possible for them to have crossed the entire Pacific Ocean under the conditions as described in that tale ?

IF not, then where DID they escape from ?

AND

What was the event that caused them to "escape" in boats across vast distances...?

Would also be interesting to know IF the time of the event described by the Saboba Native American coincides with the account of the elder Mayan claiming they had to escape some event by traveling across the Atlantic.