Dimensions and how to cross them.

T

TheDoctor1

Temporal Novice
Almost everyone on this forum has an interest in time travel. My personal belief is that to travel back through time we need to step into other dimensions. And that's what I'm going to ask all readers of this post to think about. All the Einstein theories have been bandied about, but they don't work as far as I'm concerned. I want us to crack this one together, so think about how many dimensions there are, and how we can travel into the other dimensions. I'm talking of relative dimensions to ours, not places inhabited ghosties and the like.

Okay, lets do it.

The Doctor

 
There should be one dimension for every possibility the ever was and ever vill be.

this means that in one of them we were invaded by aliens and in order to survive we rediscoverd magic and kiked the aliens but....

i am serious.

 
There should be one dimension for every possibility the ever was and ever vill be.this means that in one of them we were invaded by aliens and in order to survive we rediscoverd magic and kiked the aliens but....

i am serious.
Click to expand...
Not too sure about that. Ok these dimensions only exist based on possibilities. If the possibilities simply don't exist then they can be ruled out.
There is also the idea that the dimensions overlap each other. For example if there is a split in America, someone in Australia will not be aware of the change. There will be two universes in America and only one in Australia - until of course the action that occured causes a change in the perception of Australia in which case Australia also becomes divided.

I'm not sure if this is what The Doctor is talking about though. I think he means layers above our own perceptions. Ie Once we reach a certain state of harmony with the universe, we would find travelling back in time as easy as moving through one of the dimensions we currently perceive.

James

 
Have you seen the music video of kylee manage. Didn't spell her name right but she is british. Where she is walking the same loop in her video and every time she changed some thing in that point in time. while some ppl around her were still doing the same thing only slight difrences. If you look at it this way. You are in a room full of mirrors. you look all around and you see your self as far as your mind can see. Infinate lvls on each other. only this time you can see the back of your self as well coming to and from. now if you could pass through one of these mirrors then you wouldn't be the same person as in the reflection.Because you know you just came from there but you still have a reflection from that point. Try this some time in a house of mirrors. you might actually think you are on the other side of the mirror looking at one of your other selves.Or vise versa.

 
I'm not sure if this is what The Doctor is talking about though. I think he means layers above our own perceptions.
Click to expand...
I think you're right. And I think I agree with The Doctor's sentiment, namely that what we think of as traveling through time will actually become manifest as interdimensional travel. The direction that a lot of physical theories seem to be heading in talk about a "superfluid" that exists in a higher dimensionality. The vibratory aspects of that "superfluid" are what give rise to the appearances of Mass, Space, and Time that we experience in our dimensionality.
What this line of thinking does is cut-out a lot of the BS arguments about things like "what constitutes mass?", where such questions lead to a reductionist approach. "Superfluid" theories look towards an integrated solution, and the fundamental basis of such an integrated solution is found in the area of topology....the study of dimensionality.

And so, the thinking proceeds along the line of: If I can alter the vibratory states of matter, we may be able to travel interdimensionally. Remember the movie Buckaroo Banzai? Dune? Like they say "Truth can be stranger than fiction." :)

Kind Regards,

RainmanTime

 
Stalker619: Kylie Minogue I think is how you spell her name, and she is Australian. :D

As for dimensions, we know that theoretically there are a fair number there, but are they true barriers, or are we just too technologically primative to see them? I think we need to be able to measure any such barrier before we find a way to cross it. Such as light speed, we can manipulate light and the speed it travels, very basic at the moment of course, a theoretical barrier again but there are areas in the universe where the light barrier rule seems to break down.

Like RainmanTime says altering matter has to be the key. I think that maybe its our perception of the universe around us that may give us the biggest clue to truly finding a way through or maybe around the barriers that have to be there. Of course people will say there has to be a barrier or we would all be travelling interdimensionally, who knows, maybe you have already but you never knew because things were so close to your own dimension?

 
Re: 16th dimensionality

Friends

Sometime ago I posted my observations in a thread called the Constitution of time. In this thread I went on explaining how our reality and every other one for that matter is merely but a filament lingering in a superspace I called the Prime Temporal Point. If you read that thread carefully, you will find that I strngly believe that our plane of existence is constituted by sixteenth dimensions. Not to be understood as parallel universes. These too are contained within these sixteenth dimensions. Now I went on and explained that these dimensions existed organized in a series of construct, every other construct enveloping the following one. And by regarding the constructs as one single unit thus the Prime Temporal Point and timephasing becomes possible.

Until later becomoes now.

 
Technology of Genesis - Topological Dimensionality

Sefer Yetzirah (The Book of Creation) adequately dissects the true, structured SCIENCE that is written in the symbols of Genesis. There is little doubt left in this scientist's mind that this is true after reading the book Sefer Yetzirah The Book of Creation - In Theory and Practice (Aryeh Kaplan - 1990: ISBN 0-87728-726-0 . After reading this book, if someone who understands how science works STILL does not accept the Genesis Technology, one only need to extend the concepts of Sefer Yetzirah into the realm of Stan Tenen's Meru Foundation work.

Genesis 1 describes the scientific technology of Creation as a progression of four "layers" or DIMENSIONS:

0th Dimension - The Creative Act Itself <ul type="square"> [*]The Unfolding of Zero to 10. [*]Genesis 1 - TEN entries where "God Said..." [*]The 10 Sephira (Spheres) that represent the zero-order SEED of all Creation. [*]The Tree Of Life is that seed. [*]Lightning Flash of Creation traces from #1 to #10. [*]Here are the 10 "sayings" of God, in their order of Genesis: [*](1)Act of Creation [*](2)Light [*](3)Firmament [*](4)Flowing Water [*](5)Vegitating Earth [*](6)Luminaries [*](7)Whales [*](8)Animals [*](9)Man [*](10)Act of Reproduction (or "ReCreation")

1st Dimension - 3 Dimensions Wrapped Into One Line <ul type="square"> [*]The Single Seed Resulting from 0-dimensional Act of Creation. [*]A seed with 3 equal parts. (think: Nucleus-Cytoplasm-Membrane) [*]A 3-turn Spiral Line, existing on a 2-D planar surface. [*]Genesis 1 - THREE entries where "God Made..." [*]3 "Mother" letters of the Hebrew alphabet. [*]Here are the 3 things that God "Made", in their order of Genesis: [*](11)The Firmament (SPACE) [*](12)The Luminaries (TIME) [*](13)The Beasts of the Field (MASS)

2nd Dimension - 7 Energies Within One Plane <ul type="square"> [*]Energy, and its expression via polarized dyads. [*]Seven distinct electron energy levels, each capable of holding a (+/-) Polarized Dyadic Particle. [*]A Torus (donut) shape made from 7 helical turns, existing in a 3-D volume. [*]Genesis 1 - SEVEN entries where "God Saw..." something S/He Made was Good. [*]7 "Double Letters" of the Hebrew alphabet. [*]Here are the 7 things that God "Saw" as being Good, in their order of Genesis: [*](14)Light [*](15)Earth [*](16)Vegetation [*](17)Luminaries [*](18)Whales [*](19)Beasts [*](20)It was ALL Good!

3rd Dimension - 12 Elements Within One Volume

If you followed the unfolding of dimensions described above, you get the idea that the Genesis material that is left, the stuff that describes the unfolding of the 3rd dimension, would give us an awful lot of insight into our own lives...here in our 3-D reality.

And you'd be right. But before I spell-out the elements that Genesis describes for our 3rd dimension, perhaps you would like to ponder this on your own. Do your own research, maybe even into the resources I gave above. Come up with your own completion to the lists I have given above. And note that the number 12 plays a role here in our 3-D! ;) Have fun!

Sincere Regards,

RainmanTime

 
3-Dimensional Topology - HINT

Note said hint:

3rd Dimension - 12 Elements Within One Volume <ul type="square"> [*]Two Opposing Sets of Six. [*]Four Progressive Sets of Triplet Codons. [*]Here are the 12 Elements that were created from the prior dimensional unfoldings: [*](21) [*](22) [*](23) [*](24) [*](25) [*](26) [*](27) [*](28) [*](29) [*](30) [*](31) [*](32)

Kind Regards,

RainmanTime

 
Genesis 1: The Twelve Elementals

Oh well...since no one ventured to even guess, I figured I'd fill these in for sake of completeness of the thoughts in this post:

3rd Dimension - 12 Elements Within One Volume <ul type="square"> [*]Two Opposing Sets of Six. [*]Four Progressive Sets of Triplet Codons. [*]Twelve Signs of the Zodiac. [*]Here are the 12 Elements that were created from the prior dimensional unfoldings: [*](21)God's Spirit Hovering [*](22)Division of Light from Darkness [*](23)Light (Day) [*](24)Firmament (Heaven) [*](25)Dry Land (Earth) [*](26)Placed Luminaries in the Firmament [*](27)Created the Whales [*](28)Bless the Whales to allow them to multiply (Reproduction) [*](29)Created Man [*](30)Man takes God's Form ("in the image and likeness of God.") [*](31)Blesses Man [*](32)Gives Man Dominion over Sea, Land, Sky, Plants, & Beasts.

There are some interesting corollarys between these twelve Elemental results of Creation, especially if you apply them to concepts beyond only the creation of Earth, but rather of the entire galaxy....or universe.

Kind Regards,

RainmanTime

 
This might be a long shot, but for all you comic book-cartoon lovers out there.

The recent Justice League series has shown 2 episodes with alternating dimentions, one whith the justice guild, and the other one with the sappy 50's crime fighters.

Both were possibilities, but with one, there were people who created a comic based on events that happened in this parallel dimention, what they though were ideas were, in fact, things that were happeneing in this second dimention. Now could that be a possibility with us as well?

 
uhh sad one, how old are you, or did you kids watch it with you or somthing? because thats a show i

watch, LOL!

There was also an episode where the "justice lords" moved to the "justice leagues" dimension

because in the "lords" dimension the flash had died so they moved to a different one and no one

noticed the difference except in costume.

 
personally I think that dimensions based on possibilities should be viewed in terms of infinity

since every action and choice makes a different dimension dimensions should then be stated in infinity minus the probability of a proposed action or circumstance

if I didn't explain my self well which is a stong possibility please refer to the hitch hikers guide to the galaxy trilogy its both entertainment and does an adiquite job of explaining dimensional improbability as well as dimensional travel as a form of faster than light travel.

 
What happened to this discussion? Did you lose interest? I was today stuck in a traffic jam and tried to pass over the limit of thinking in tree dimensions space. We are very used to imagine everything in tree coordinates. Let we have a dot in a diagram with tree coordinates (x,y,z). But what if we add another one? How shall we draw it in the diagram? Adding color? Its not that easy to show it in details. Especially if that is the time (t). But what about swapping it with any of the other coordinates? In that way moving to time looks as easy as moving to x (or y or z).

But thinking so seems to answer the question of raising the time travelers paradox - killing traveler's younger self!

If the spot can be in only one place in the (x, y, z) coordinate, it should be the same if the coordinate is (x,y,z,t), right? No parallel universes! If the spot moves back or forward time it will be the only instance of that spot. No problem of meeting the spot's younger self!

No one ever said traveling to future will meet you with your older self, right? The same implies to jumping back!

Stefan

 
What happened to this discussion? Did you lose interest? I was today stuck in a traffic jam and tried to pass over the limit of thinking in tree dimensions space. We are very used to imagine everything in tree coordinates. Let we have a dot in a diagram with tree coordinates (x,y,z). But what if we add another one? How shall we draw it in the diagram? Adding color? Its not that easy to show it in details. Especially if that is the time (t). But what about swapping it with any of the other coordinates? In that way moving to time looks as easy as moving to x (or y or z).But thinking so seems to answer the question of raising the time travelers paradox - killing traveler's younger self!
If the spot can be in only one place in the (x, y, z) coordinate, it should be the same if the coordinate is (x,y,z,t), right? No parallel universes! If the spot moves back or forward time it will be the only instance of that spot. No problem of meeting the spot's younger self!

No one ever said traveling to future will meet you with your older self, right? The same implies to jumping back!

Stefan
Click to expand...
We lost interest in the topic ten years ago because it was not very cogent or well defined. He asked the question, "How many dimensions are there?" How many degrees of freedom are there? It's the same question because "dimensions" without any further rigorous definition are simply degrees of freedom (DoFs) in a system. Statisticians, physicists and engineers work with systems of greater than three dimensions all the time with no problem or New Age sophistry.Think about an airplane. It moves in 6 dimensions - technically a 6DoF system (ask Ray about this). It has a motion of translation (up/down, left/right, forward/backwards and a motion of rotation (pitch, roll and yaw). A trained engineer doesn't have any problem modelling or manipulating the system. Pilots navigate just fine in this 6 dimensional world. And Ray could further complicate this system by adding lift, drag, gravity, air temperature, air density, humidity and air velocity as additional independent variables (aka DoFs). We'd then have a 12D problem. Can we graph a 12D problem on a piece of paper? No. But we can't graph a 3D problem on a piece of paper either so it's not a particular problem. With the proper tools (a computer and some software) we can solve just about any problem involving this 12D system.

We've suffered through the threads running along the lines of, "Oh, he wasn't a time traveler - he's was a dimension traveler." WTF is that all about? Tossing out the word "dimension" as if we're saying something profound and meaningful meaningful...is neither.

No one ever said traveling to future will meet you with your older self, right?

Oh, hell no. We've never heard anyone say that time travel might imply meeting your doppleganger self. Oh, OK - In 1958 Robert Heinlein did write a short story "All You Zombies" where the time traveler not only met him/herself but he was his/her own father, mother, grandfather, grandmother, brother and sister. And we've had hundreds of threads about the same subject.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
About dimensions - they must be a lot. At least not just 3 or even 4. Talking about the plane, you are right it moves in more than the 3 dimensions, but I think moving left/right are just two directions of one dimension. So the space can be well defined by just 3 dimensions. But there are many other things to be concerned about too. I am not sure if the aging of the material is one of them, but it could be. I am also not a fan of Novikov's self-consistency principle. Don't think there are parallel universes. Have never heard of prophet who's source is himself from parallel world.

 
When we get into dimensions I think we are talking about more than one mode of travel. There is dimensional travel that is not considered time travel. With dimensional travel other dimensions are traveled too. Then, there is using dimensional travel to time travel where one gains access to another dimension to leave normal space-time then crosses back into the previous dimension but at another time. In effect using dimensional travel to time travel.

 
My personal assumption from time travel extends to my assumption that there is a finite amount of matter in a given universe. This matter cannot be created or destroyed, only manipulated. From this, I like to think, that in order to travel into a different dimension, one would have to "exchange" matter with that dimension so that both sides continue to have the same amount of matter they did previously. Thinking this way, if you were to travel into a universe where you already exist, you would have to swap places with your other self in order to make room for extra matter on either end.

 
My personal assumption from time travel extends to my assumption that there is a finite amount of matter in a given universe. This matter cannot be created or destroyed, only manipulated. From this, I like to think, that in order to travel into a different dimension, one would have to "exchange" matter with that dimension so that both sides continue to have the same amount of matter they did previously. Thinking this way, if you were to travel into a universe where you already exist, you would have to swap places with your other self in order to make room for extra matter on either end.
Click to expand...
This makes me think of Fringe, where traveling from one universe to the other causes these kind of "forced exchanges". At one point, whole buildings were getting sucked over...

 
Very interesting thread. Yes, it is a good idea but it isn't something we can prove or disprove. We can't even prove or disprove if there are more dimensions than the four (3 space, 1 time) that we live in. But it is very interesting and possible. Time is intertwined in the fabric of 3D space, but if we can find a way around the 3D space where time is not intertwined, say a fourth dimension, therefore we can work our way out of the constrictions of time moving in one direction only. So therefore, this is what I think. But first we need to explore multidimensions first.

 

Similar threads

Darby
Parallel Universe (One of the Original Titor Threads on TTI)
Replies
0
Views
926
Darby
Darby
T
Dimensions and how to cross them.
Replies
12
Views
514
selphexpressed
S
P
Time Travel / Parallel Dimensions: Will ever the two cross?
Replies
3
Views
219
Guest
G
Top