'Divergence' PROVES 100% That Titor Is A Hoax

[Twighlight]

\'Divergence\' PROVES 100% That Titor Is A Hoax

It took me a little while to realize this, but in fact...Titor's own claims prove him a hoax.

One word proves it :- Divergence.

It is allegedly a measure of the 'difference' between Titor's timeline and those he supposedly visited. Titor made claim that there was a 2.5% divergence.

But there is a MAJOR...indeed, insurmountable.....problem. How does Titor actually know, BEFORE TRAVELLING, what the 'divergence' is in any other timeline ??

In quantum theory, which is where ideas of divergence come from, the very act of measuring something changes it. Consider the analogy of measuring tyre pressure......you actually release ( and thus change ) some of that pressure in order to make the measurement. And it is even more so with the quantum world.

So what is Titor's divergence measurer actually DOING ?? To search for a 'similar' timeline...you'd have to randomly select through trillions that would be different....IN ORDER TO MAKE THE MEASUREMENT THAT THEY WERE DIFFERENT !! You would not, indeed could not, know what the divergence is without making an actual measurement WITHIN the divergent timeline IN ADVANCE. You cannot know how divergent the timeline is any other way.

So....there are trillions of different timelines to choose from. How does Titor end up in one with an IBM 5100 to grab....and not one of the vastly greater number where blue-green algae still rule the Earth.....or one where dinosaurs drive Ford Mustangs ??

He would have to measure every single one of trillions of different timelines in advance...to find the tiny percent with an IBM 5100. BUT..the very act of measuring changes those timelines ! LOL...for a single time traveller to find the 'right' timeline to travel to...he must screw up every other timeline in existence !

The entire 'divergence measurement' thing is palpable nonsense. Either Titor has no idea where he may end up.....in which case he'd probably be roadkill to a Ford Mustang driving dinosaur....OR....he had to personally measure every timeline that exists, thus altering them all, in which case I would personally request that the Temporal Police ( nobody expects the Temporal Police.....) issue a warrant for his arrest for screwing up the whole of history everywhere.

 

[Twighlight]

Re: \'Divergence\' PROVES 100% That Titor Is A Hoax

Oh...and there's a common misconception that if you 'only travel a short distance into the past'....that somehow that guarantees a similar timeline. It is also a nonsense claim....as in fact a timeline that diverged 4 billion years ago is just as much 61 years in the past in 2036 as a timeline that diverged in 1974.

The reality is actually the other way round. The longer ago a timeline diverged, the more it will ityself have split over time...and the more variations of it will be predominant. Recently split off timelines will be just a TINY fraction of all the timelines that exist. The chances of getting a 'similar' timeline are not far short of zero.

 

[RainmanTime]

Re: \'Divergence\' PROVES 100% That Titor Is A Hoax

or one where dinosaurs drive Ford Mustangs ??

No wonder they became extinct. For every dinosaur driving a Ford Mustang, there had to be an equal or greater number who wished they had eaten the extra cost and got a real sports car, the Chevy Corvette!

Stupid dinosaurs.

But on the whole whitewash issue of divergence, I agree with you. It was a hopelessly bad tactic for Titor to use. Especially given how he loved to remind people "I am not a physicist but..."

RMT

 

[Twighlight]

Re: \'Divergence\' PROVES 100% That Titor Is A Hoax

I'm increasingly of the view that the only place time travel exists is in the excellent 1981 album 'Time' by ELO.

( which is where I got the nick Twighlight from )

 

[RainmanTime]

Re: \'Divergence\' PROVES 100% That Titor Is A Hoax

I'm increasingly of the view that the only place time travel exists is in the excellent 1981 album 'Time' by ELO.

Well, if there was ever a rock band that came from the future to create music that stands the test of time, I would agree ELO was it. Jeff Lynne is a genius, and that music was easily 10-15 years ahead of its time. I still listen to it regularly.

RMT

 

[Angleochoas]

Re: \'Divergence\' PROVES 100% That Titor Is A Hoax

dinosaur driving a Ford Mustang, there had to be an equal or greater number who wished they had eaten the extra cost and got a real sports car, the Chevy Corvette!

Chevus Corvettius?

lol I like funny analogies ^^ /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[TimeLord]

Re: \'Divergence\' PROVES 100% That Titor Is A Hoax

For gobbles' sake, you're wasting that much time on titor bs?

 

[ruthless]

Re: \'Divergence\' PROVES 100% That Titor Is A Hoax

its pretty fun to waste time on titor bs. until you get to the bottom of the rabbit hole.

it then becomes rather unappealing.

 

[TimeNot_0]

Re: \'Divergence\' PROVES 100% That Titor Is A Hoax

Doesn't prove anything, like using the term "Crash".

 

[concusion3]

Re: \'Divergence\' PROVES 100% That Titor Is A Hoax

LOL well I didn't need all that to know Titor was a hoax.

 

[Angleochoas]

Re: \'Divergence\' PROVES 100% That Titor Is A Hoax

'Divergence' PROVES 100% That Titor Is A Hoax

Di ver gence
Spelled Pronunciation [di-vur-juhns, dahy-] Show IPA
Use divergence in a Sentence
–noun
1. the act, fact, or amount of diverging: a divergence in opinion.
2. (in physics, meteorology, etc.) the total amount of flux escaping an infinitesimal volume at a point in a vector field, as the net flow of air from a given region.
3. Ophthalmology. a turning motion of the eyeballs outward in relation to each other.
4. Electronics. the spreading of a stream of electrons resulting from their mutual electrostatic repulsion.

Maybe he was mixing #1 & #2 - maybe he was just using #2, hard to say?

I'll go with you guys. Until something has proof it's BS. However for analysis and novelty he certainly roused some imagination.

I know it's been debunked but for the creativity aspect it would certainly be interesting if the least likely was the reference, #3.
Eyeballs? what's that got to do with anything? ... Perception, and then the indicated motion.

Once again fun novelty. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Unaltered Reference:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/divergence

 

[Darby]

Re: \'Divergence\' PROVES 100% That Titor Is A Hoax

Angleo,

Check the terms divergence and convergance as calculus terms. That's more likely what he was refering to. It's still a BS term as used in the story.

 

[Angleochoas]

Re: \'Divergence\' PROVES 100% That Titor Is A Hoax

In quantum theory, which is where ideas of divergence come from, the very act of measuring something changes it.

Where does that apply other than the quantum observation in regards to the duality of light?

 

[Darby]

Re: \'Divergence\' PROVES 100% That Titor Is A Hoax

Where does that apply other than the quantum observation in regards to the duality of light?

It applies to every quantum measurement of two non-commutating physical properties (states), e.g. position : momentum, energy : time.

In quantum mechanics the math is somewhat different than ordinary math. We usually look at an equation

A*B = X = B*A

and rightly assume that to be correct. But in the 1850's Cayle and Hamilton discovered matrix algebra. In matrix algebra

A*B =/ B*A

if the two matrices are non-commutative. In the early 20th Century quantum physicists discovered that matrix algebra correctly described physical realities in quantum physics. The Uncertainty Principle has its foundation in matrix algebra.

A post explaining matrix math would be far too long here. If you want to see how it works try this Wiki:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_(mathematics)

Once you get the hang of it practice multiplying two 2x2 matrices using the matrix formula and you'll see how multiplying Matrix B by Matrix A can give a different answer than mulltiplying Matrix A by Matrix B (AB =/ BA).

 

[Angleochoas]

Re: \'Divergence\' PROVES 100% That Titor Is A Hoax

I see your point Darb,

What I was referring to was the OP sounded like they were speaking of a physical experiment;

the very act of measuring something changes it.

That said, I can always use some guidance and I appreciate whatever you do offer ^^ .
Matrices are interesting, I'll probably have some questions for you once I get playing around with them and some other things as well, so long as you're not bothered.
/ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
(I've got my brother's 1st year math books from Queens when he was taking engineering - I'm thinking having the Prof, lectures, etc is key - probably not good to only have myself to ask questions when they arise)

 

[Darby]

Re: \'Divergence\' PROVES 100% That Titor Is A Hoax

Angleo,

Yes, the OP was refering to a physical experiment. The Uncertainty Principle is really an effect that has no direct counterpart in classical physics but it can be vaguely explained in classical terms.

In QM they say that you cannot simultaneously measure to an arbitrary degree of precision both the position and momentum of a particle. Here's a classical view of the same problem:

A particle is moving across your laboratory and you want to measure its location and momentum. How do you do that? You have to "shoot" it with three other particles from different angles and have them bounce off and come back to detectors. Sounds a bit like radar. Your detector's computer makes calculations and you have the exact location of where the particle was when the photons hit it. But you won't really know what the momentum of the particle was at the time that the photons struck it because the photons traded some momentum with the particle. You can take measurements of the momentum of the photons that were received at the detector and do some math and you'll have a pretty good idea of what the average momentum was but that's it. You won't be able to state to an arbitrary degree of precision what the "actual" momentum was. In the real world you can't just shoot three photons and expect that they will all strike the particle simultaneously (classical term, not post Special Relativity term). You have to shoot a stream of photons. That only makes the situation less acurate. In the end you have a probability curve based on thousands of experiments that gives a range of possible positions and momenta for the test particles.

Quantum physics is the physics of probabilities at the atomic and smaller levels.

BTW: No problem with the matrix algebra. It's probably best to do it in PM rather than as personal posts cluttering up a thread.

 

[Angleochoas]

Re: \'Divergence\' PROVES 100% That Titor Is A Hoax

Sounds good thx. /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Last question on here in regards to your last post example;

How do you do that? You have to "shoot" it with three other particles from different angles and have them bounce off and come back to detectors

Triangulation?

 

[Darby]

Re: \'Divergence\' PROVES 100% That Titor Is A Hoax

Yes, triangulation.

 

[hdrkid]

Re: \'Divergence\' PROVES 100% That Titor Is A Hoax

John Titor claims that with 2.5% divergence certain books were not written and that sporting events end differently with the "wrong" team winning a football game.

Well, perhaps one of these books that was not written helped spark Civil War 2.0 and WWIII. It is often said that the book "Uncle Tom's Cabin" helped spark our civil war.

TAKEN FROM http://www.htportal.org/forum/index.php?topic=64.0
TimeTravel_0 : In fact..I've noticed samll changes.

G° : I mean you upstairs asleep wouldn't have known if you now was downstairs

G° : you have? thats what i was getting it

TimeTravel_0 : No...he knows me.

TimeTravel_0 : Yes...small changes.

G° : care to give an example?

TimeTravel_0 : Sure...

TimeTravel_0 : Football....(sorry) games that were lost that should have been won.

TimeTravel_0 : Incidental news stories that havent happened.

TimeTravel_0 : Books not written.

TimeTravel_0 : Small stuff like that.


John Titor explains %D
TAKEN FROM http://www.anomalies.net/object/titororiginalpost.html
"Therefore, there is a worldline where you are alive and another worldline where you have gone back in time to kill your relative and the you on the new worldline won’t be born but “you” the killer is still running around there. Differences between worldlines are measured from the perspective of the time traveler in terms of divergence percentage. The higher the divergence, the more “un-like” your destination worldline looks like compared to your worldline of origin."