I'm 46 and am a Generation X'er; not a Baby Boomer. 1965 is the supposed start up date of the X'er; so he is an early X'er like myself. I agree that knowing Titor is a fake doessn't matter. I knew when reading; but it was great fun playing a game of "I'm speaking to a Time Traveller". Most people knew it but didn't care.
The Real John Titor
- Thread starter Razimus
- Start date
Florida_Jim
Chrono Cadet
Wow. Escapism. That's funny.For many reasons.
I have learned something during this journey. Possibly the most important aspect to learn. Regarding escapism, I have found how important it is to never share myself with anyone who is unworthy. It was my experience, meant for me.I have no need to find validation of my experience through sharing it, *especially* with those who are unworthy.
I believe my obligation is simply to inform you, Titor is real. He was a very good person. Nicer than any have made him out to be, with more honor and integrity than most Americans dare to try in this current day. What ever you choose to believe, is your choice. It simply isn't my obligation to convince you.
I leave you with a favorite song. "Beloved" by Tenth Avenue North.
Take care.
Okay, I'll play Darby for a minute and debunk evil.
Are you trying to start a cult of Titor believers?Escapism is something I encountered while reading John's posts. I wanted to believe him and loved reading his posts and didn't want to believe he was a fake but had to. Why? Because I was never in a position to meet him personally and yes some kind of "proof" was needed but I didn't discover his posts til years after he left. I didn't read any earlier posts mentioned by Darby on ArtBell; I just read the ones from a Titor website which posted archive forum postings; and none were the ones Darby mentioned. Like they say there is a sucker born every minute and I didn't want to believe myself to be one of those "suckers" so it was best for me to enjoy his posts knowing they were fake and like I said all I had were posts; no personal meeting with Titor. If he "really" was a time traveller and you "really" did meet a "real" time traveller than of course you are truly blessed and no one could take that away from you. For me as others the search continues for the possibility and the reality of it all.Wow. Escapism. That's funny.
I have learned something during this journey. Possibly the most important aspect to learn. Regarding escapism, I have found how important it is to never share myself with anyone who is unworthy. It was my experience, meant for me.I have no need to find validation of my experience through sharing it, *especially* with those who are unworthy.
I believe my obligation is simply to inform you, Titor is real. He was a very good person. Nicer than any have made him out to be, with more honor and integrity than most Americans dare to try in this current day. What ever you choose to believe, is your choice. It simply isn't my obligation to convince you.
I leave you with a favorite song. "Beloved" by Tenth Avenue North.
Take care.
John Thomas
Temporal Navigator
I'm also 46, born in 1967, and a GenXer. I ain't no Baby Boomer. But the media seems to have forgotten that and they are lumping us together with the Boomers. Author David Brin is a Baby Boomer. Bill Clinton is a Baby Boomer.
It was my generation which brought you Punk and Goth, Boomers brought you Glam.
It was my generation that watched too much T.V.
This is what we were remembered for. Some say that we ruined the economy because we are lazy. Absolutely wrong. We ruined the economy because we figured out how not to pay employees what they are worth. We perfected the Harvard Greed Model.
Boomers are the Golden Sacs and the like crowd, the heavy Bankster/Fed players, and of course the heavy hitters of the Military Industrial Complex; we are survivors of the abortion holocaust, (why Boomers/Millenials outnumber us 3 to 1), and CEO's of major Corporations are from the Boomer crowd, the creators of WTO, and the like. We are the ones that would rather balance family/work; the Slackers want to enjoy life. Of course generalization; but X'ers definatley weren't the cause of the Economy collapse.
201ajgrant
Temporal Novice
Razimus ... you were wrong twice before ... what makes you think that people will find you "right" now? Maury Haber is an incidental victim here. I hope you're ready for a lawsuit ... and this time your corporation won't support you.
Troy Titor
Chrono Cadet
"I am the one true Titor. Thou shalt have no other Titor but me."Okay, I'll play Darby for a minute and debunk evil.
-Book of C204 20:36
Darby
Epochal Historian
Unfortunately the quote does not reflect my thoughts on the Titor Saga. The Titor Saga, John Titor/TimeTravel_0, JTF do not represent evil. It was and is a business venture, nothing more. There's nothing evil about that.
My entire point for the past 13+ years has been to give what assistance that I can to people to help them avoid being sucked into belief in fantasy without asking proper questions. The Titor Saga, as a piece of solid physical science, is pure bunk. But to discover the reason why it is obviously so is a matter of individual research.
Those who so easily believe the Titor Saga are the same people who are lambs to the slaughter for other more neferous fictions. Yet they are the same people who bray at the moon about conspiracies - and would be the first to the chopping block if their conspiracy theories ever came true. Why? Because they would be the folks who bought hook, line and sinker the propoganda. But being lambs to "the cause", once their initial usefullness (promoting the "whatever") has been fulfilled, their further use would be none. All too maleable dunces are not a good thing to keep around after the revolution. The counter-revolutionary forces can be equally effective with them, given the chance. Whack! Chop! See-yuh. Wouldn't wanna be-yuh.
201ajgrant
Temporal Novice
I know it may seem a bit of a "catch-all" argument ... but ... is it NOT true that the CIA drip-feeds truthful discoveries of the "grey" kind through the filter of sci-fi?
I say "grey" not meaning to impose the meaning of "alien greys" , but to say that they are "of a kind off-colour" [to paraphrase].
201ajgrant
Temporal Novice
And, FYI to all: Razimus has a VESTED interest in this story being proven to be a hoax.
He is a low-lying reporter for a somewhat-known science rag.
He IS being paid for his testimony.
He is a low-lying reporter for a somewhat-known science rag.
He IS being paid for his testimony.
TempusMutantur
Temporal Novice
201ajgrant, If what you say about Razimus is true, I must refer you to a statement I made here not long ago. "Follow the Money". The answers to ALL the questions concerning whether or not John Titor was a real time traveler lies there. Where's the money? Who is earning it and how? And I swear to Christ! The stuff I read here is English, but too often am I left feeling like I need an interpreter. I don't know what the flonque some of these Half-A-Whack-Jobs are talking about half the time. Do I need degrees in physics? I'm not angry, just a little confused sometimes. But more than anything else, I'm having so much fun here!
TempusMutantur
Temporal Novice
I'm not trying to stir the pot, but I feel the need to say it again. "For people of faith, no proof is required. For people of no faith, no proof is enough".
Mylo.X.
Quantum Scribe
Not at all the case. I did the homework a decade ago and posted it all, with few exceptions. The exceptions were not posted because the information had a definite privacy concern. In the early days we all, me included, posted information that contained too much private information about individuals that we should not have posted. But the information in the exceptions really aren't very telling.
I will post occassionally on a Titor thread. I do that because it entertains me and maybe entertains someone else. But I long ago (long as in years ago) lost interest in Finding the Pope in the Pizza.
The bottom line, and I am quite satisfied with the bottom line, is that this was a hoax. Not a typical hoax but an economic endeavour within the entertainment industry, to use the Internet in a creative way. To attempt to generate a viral urban sci-fi legend and turn it into a book, comic book, T-shirts, coffee mugs and ultimately a feature film. To that end it has been moderately successful, though the economics end seems to have failed. But the question as to whether he was an actual time traveler was answered in his first few posts. What little science that he posted was, frankly, crap. That part has been proven to the satisfaction of anyone who has any real background in physics. Not a PhD in physics, just a background. Lower division survey college physics is sufficient. We've also had one actual physicist from a major US university weigh in at length (Dr. Robert Brown, Duke University Dept. of Physics). Between his fits of hysterical laughter at anyone who would believe the story he went through the "Titor science" point by point and shredded it. Michio Kaku also weighed in, though not in depth. He wants to sell his books and make his public speaking appearances so being as brutal as Dr. Brown would not be in his best economic and PR interest. So his commentary basically stated that if time travel is possible at all we are hundreds if not thousands of years away from being able to develop anything approaching Titor's Gadget.
Last, though he made very few specific "predictions" (he always left everything quite vague such that anyone could interpret anything he said in any manner that they chose), not one of t he specific predictions has come to pass. No civil war, CERN did not get the LHC online for almost a decade - not "within a year or so", no magic particle has been discovered by the LHC, no black hole has been created by LHC (principally because the LHC lacks by many orders of magnitude the energy sufficient to create a non-gravitational black hole - another non-physical Titor fantasy).
So, do you see why the story no longer interests me in-so-far as finding Boomer's identity? He's just a guy out there who happened to be a better writer than the average internet poster. Not a great writer; just a better than average internet poster. Look at the posts on sites like this and you'll see why even that is not particularly impressive for me.
And we have always strongly suspected that this was a creative group effort. Group Titor. Boomer apparently wrote the posts but he had help with the creative end of the Titor Saga (posts). We found Group Titor at VISI Corp. They wrote The Book. Buzzmaker told us that he witnessed them writing The Book. Not only did he witness them writing The Book, he also witnessed them creating the "extra, previously unreleased VGL diagrams and schematics" included in the special edition of The Book - the extra diagrams that Titor promised to release but never did. The diagrams that he took from the GE manual that was created in 2035.
We know that Buzzmaker had the access to have made the observation because the email address that he used to contact us at Anomalies.net was the same email address as used by JTFan (the person who did the internet media blitz on thousands of sites promoting The Book) and the same email address as used by Larry Haber to contact us at Anomalies.net. Why did Buzzmaker have such access you might ask? Because his job was to wite the script for, direct, produce and shop The Radio Program. He did that at the sound studio at VISI Corp. What is VISI Corp? It was (is?) a multi-media advertising agency located in the same building in Celebration, FL where Larry haber had one of his law offices. It was also the address used by the JTF. VISI Corp. had a film studio, sound studio, graphic arts studio and visual/special effects studio. In other words, it had every studio and the personnel needed to produce The Gadet (Titors VGL Time Machine-in-a-Box), The Manual, The Schematics...
And Larry Haber was Chief Legal Counsel for VISI Corp.
The few people who still cling onto the hope of the Titor story being true should read and re-read this post.
Einstein
Dimensional Traveler
Mylo.X.
I have faith that the story is a complete hoax. Of course I just used the word "Faith" incorrectly. Since there are real facts to show the story is a hoax.
I think that is the crux of the whole argument. Their belief systems tell them that this is true. So they reject all facts contrary to their beliefs.
I have faith that the story is a complete hoax. Of course I just used the word "Faith" incorrectly. Since there are real facts to show the story is a hoax.
I think that is the crux of the whole argument. Their belief systems tell them that this is true. So they reject all facts contrary to their beliefs.
TempusMutantur
Temporal Novice
Mylo.X. and Einstein... well said. Thank you both. That Darby is quite bright. I've done more than a little reading and my own investigating. I'm harboring only a little resentment toward the fact that I spent so much time on the whole Titor thing. Time I'll never get back. At least it was entertaining enough for awhile. But facts, truth, proof and evidence are exactly what they are. And denial isn't a river in Egypt. At the same time, I would never pretend I could tell anyone what to believe or in what to have faith.
