I thought about the source of wealth and the nature thereof; I wondered where money ultimately comes from. After some thought, I realized that there is no more wealth than is ever present at a given time. Time can be exchanged for money, money for gold, gold for food. But the cause of economic crashes and turmoil is not caused by scarcity of resources or misspent money. A healthy economy is one in which wealth is ever-flowing, always changing hands. It is only when people hoard resources, be it money or other items, that the flow is inhibited or stopped completely. At this point, an economy can stagnate and even falter completely. Therefore, greed is the cause of economic downturns and recessions. Social competition and selfish behaviors are punished by the delicate system upon which we depend for our livelihood. An economy is inherently selfless and unbiased, in contrast to human nature; perhaps we can learn something from it.
To Those Wondering About the Future of the Economy
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Angleochoas
Timekeeper
Not to take away from the philosophy quoted; it has some ideas I can understand.
However - getting back to cold logic - would you say it has nothing to do with China's growth (not to mention purposeful devaluation of their own Yuan?); as well as Russian chess? (IE; Gazprom etc, etc)???
(After that the domino of nationalization aforementioned above...Venezula, AU, etc, etc).
So yes, standing back and forgetting politics, it does have alot to do with greed, though it's a complicated formula that can be traced by to each consumer...International markets have never been so entwined as now...you tell me the ramifications ?
As for free choice on the part of the consumer...locally yes - internationally?
Not all countries have the freedom on the scale that we enjoy...
Not a good time for Sun Tzu; Art of War economic policies - However it'll all be fine I'm sure.
Western nations seem especially good at inventing...which to me is the real fuel behind an economy...
Creating an object or service that drives collective passions and opens the way for more advances. Whether it's transportation, leisure, communication, etc, etc, etc...
However - getting back to cold logic - would you say it has nothing to do with China's growth (not to mention purposeful devaluation of their own Yuan?); as well as Russian chess? (IE; Gazprom etc, etc)???
(After that the domino of nationalization aforementioned above...Venezula, AU, etc, etc).
So yes, standing back and forgetting politics, it does have alot to do with greed, though it's a complicated formula that can be traced by to each consumer...International markets have never been so entwined as now...you tell me the ramifications ?
As for free choice on the part of the consumer...locally yes - internationally?
Not all countries have the freedom on the scale that we enjoy...
Not a good time for Sun Tzu; Art of War economic policies - However it'll all be fine I'm sure.
Western nations seem especially good at inventing...which to me is the real fuel behind an economy...
Creating an object or service that drives collective passions and opens the way for more advances. Whether it's transportation, leisure, communication, etc, etc, etc...
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- #3
Angleochoas
Timekeeper
Speaking of that...
Forget UFO's...whatever happened to all the 'Elvis sightings' ?
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Forget UFO's...whatever happened to all the 'Elvis sightings' ?
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- #5
To know the cause of a problem but not its solution is pointless. Therefore I hereby propose a solution to two pressing economic issues, considering the low chance of greed being overcome.
To save the retail markets, the federal government should place a cap on gasoline prices of about $1/gallon. This would ensure that fuel accounts for only a small portion of an individual's income; the rest could be spent on things people don't really need but want to buy.
As for the mortgage market, I have a solution not everybody will like. Everyone should buy fire insurance, then start some grass fires in california again. Everybody gets reimbursed for the cost of their house, and homes become scarce, thereby increasing their value.
Do these things and both retail and banks are fixed. Then we'll have an insurance crisis. :D
To save the retail markets, the federal government should place a cap on gasoline prices of about $1/gallon. This would ensure that fuel accounts for only a small portion of an individual's income; the rest could be spent on things people don't really need but want to buy.
As for the mortgage market, I have a solution not everybody will like. Everyone should buy fire insurance, then start some grass fires in california again. Everybody gets reimbursed for the cost of their house, and homes become scarce, thereby increasing their value.
Do these things and both retail and banks are fixed. Then we'll have an insurance crisis. :D
Angleochoas
Timekeeper
With the recent American/Canadian leader visit - one thing became apparent.
Why is Canada weathering the storm better than the power house neighbour? -
More Government control in one or more area/(s) - banking/insurance
Capitol/free markets I agree need to run themselves, however the currency which is the lifeblood of any economy and represented by the Government - should be on a large degree regulated and overseen by the Government.
(The Government prints and produces the monies/original credits, why should they just fly out the door after creation with a blind eye to private banks?).
Daydream;
Each state has one representative bank - under these trust companies/credit unions.
Federal reserve oversees these and has ultimate power over judgement calls.
IE; Nothing can be done with the 'peoples' monies on a large scale without government approval -
Representation
What's worse than taxation without representation? Investment without knowledge or representation.
This should get rid of all the Gordon Gekko's and Bernie Madoff's.
Loophole's should also be able to be closed immediately upon non-ethical use.
IE; a private citizen declares bankruptcy - they are held in financial 're-learning' for a period of 7 years - explain this to Mr. Trump and his much larger butterfly effect on others.
Accountability.
Why is Canada weathering the storm better than the power house neighbour? -
More Government control in one or more area/(s) - banking/insurance
Capitol/free markets I agree need to run themselves, however the currency which is the lifeblood of any economy and represented by the Government - should be on a large degree regulated and overseen by the Government.
(The Government prints and produces the monies/original credits, why should they just fly out the door after creation with a blind eye to private banks?).
Daydream;
Each state has one representative bank - under these trust companies/credit unions.
Federal reserve oversees these and has ultimate power over judgement calls.
IE; Nothing can be done with the 'peoples' monies on a large scale without government approval -
Representation
What's worse than taxation without representation? Investment without knowledge or representation.
This should get rid of all the Gordon Gekko's and Bernie Madoff's.
Loophole's should also be able to be closed immediately upon non-ethical use.
IE; a private citizen declares bankruptcy - they are held in financial 're-learning' for a period of 7 years - explain this to Mr. Trump and his much larger butterfly effect on others.
Accountability.
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- #7
KerrTexas
Timekeeper
"They point the finger of scorn and question concerning
race in the language of ridicule and contempt with that apparent
instinct which makes one feel that humanity, at least that much of it
as professed by such ignorant and imbecile yet highly self-conceited specimens of mortality,
; and to whom the words of Schiller are justly applicable;" Heaven and Earth is in
vain against a dunce.""
" Thought is most precious, the dear treasure of secret's and highest bliss. Thought is the
constant companion, the monitor of actions and the true key to life. "
" Then and there nature, in all her diversified phases, from the finite to the infinite, and from the infinitessimal to the grand aggregate of knowledge,full of instruction ; by which she would teach a man his duty to his God, to his fellow man and to himself.
But alas, how few ever heed the symbolic whispers of her low, sweet voice ! "
--History of the Choctaw, Chickasaw and Natchez Indians, H.B. Cushman, 1899.
Angleochoas
Timekeeper
I'm just playing devil's advocate here a second.
Canada has since 1966 flew in immigrant workers from MEXICO, Jamaica, Trinidad, etc. to work in the fields, IE; Tobacco picking, tomato picking, pickle picking, apple picking, you name it - so no, we are not infested - we have acknowledged where the immigrant workers are located - what our own people are not willing to do in terms of jobs - and offered not only to provide these jobs while they are in season, but to fly them here subsidized, fly them home subsidized, provide amenities for them - and guess what?
No one complains. When I was a teenager growing up needing summer work, we got to work with these 'offshore' workers in the fields and it taught us alot about culture.
Reference;
http://www.canadianimmigrant.ca/asktheexpert/article/2836
I decided to remove the rest of my 'debate' out of empathy for those having a hard time right now...
On a side note - not too serious ...but
I think the USA should take over Mexico lol.
That country could be productive - but the leaders there have no clue.
Organziational skills - nill for God's sake you've read the reports about Mexican gangs and their control over the policia there...
Instead of having the Mexicans come across the border to find jobs, if the country was run by people with half a brain you could create lots of future there...
I know a pipe dream but... what a waste. Do they even care about what resources are there that have never been tapped? Or actually looked with tech?
The best thing would be to let that Govt' fall apart and then let uncle Sam clean it up.
Drug cartels like picking on under funded police?
...Kerr put up that Gunship pic again
I say then rename Mexico to Texaco
lol ...just having fun.
KerrTexas
Timekeeper
My wife is of Mexican Heritage...so I for one find racist remarks to be hateful, ignorant and irresponsible.
A debate based on fact is one thing, out-right racist comment's are another.
I am offended and the racist remark as posted is an offense to my family.
In case there is any question as to what the word offense means:
The act of causing anger, resentment, displeasure, or affront.
The state of being offended.
A violation or infraction of a moral or social code.
I know there are also members of this board that are of various cultures, and to make a racist comment about any one culture brings an un-wanted element to this forum, unless I am mistaken and Time Travel Institute condones racism.
I find absolutely no humor with any kind of racism. Period.
A debate based on fact is one thing, out-right racist comment's are another.
I am offended and the racist remark as posted is an offense to my family.
In case there is any question as to what the word offense means:
The act of causing anger, resentment, displeasure, or affront.
The state of being offended.
A violation or infraction of a moral or social code.
I know there are also members of this board that are of various cultures, and to make a racist comment about any one culture brings an un-wanted element to this forum, unless I am mistaken and Time Travel Institute condones racism.
I find absolutely no humor with any kind of racism. Period.
Packerbacker
Timekeeper
Re: To Those Wondering About the Future of the Eco
You may turn out to be a better prophet than HDRkid.
While I don't actually anticipate it happening, if Mexico's government dissolves into chaos, and they've got a problem now with drug cartels, I can imagine the US sending in troops to restore order (they can use the troops now in Iraq--the soldiers will then be able to visit home on their leave!).
If this happened, would the troops ever be withdrawn? Maybe not? Maybe Mexico gets annexed. :D
You may turn out to be a better prophet than HDRkid.
While I don't actually anticipate it happening, if Mexico's government dissolves into chaos, and they've got a problem now with drug cartels, I can imagine the US sending in troops to restore order (they can use the troops now in Iraq--the soldiers will then be able to visit home on their leave!).
If this happened, would the troops ever be withdrawn? Maybe not? Maybe Mexico gets annexed. :D
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RainmanTime
Timekeeper
origin,
When one uses the word "infested" in relation to a group of people that are associated only through their nationality, I find it difficult to find anything other than negative connotations. Here are the definitions for "infested"
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/infested
<font color="red">1. To inhabit or overrun in numbers or quantities large enough to be harmful, threatening, or obnoxious: rats infesting the sewers; streets that were infested with drugs.
2. To live as a parasite in or on: livestock that were infested with tapeworms. [/COLOR]
I was first mildly shocked by your "jewbaiting" in more than one post. But now with this I am just plain sad that a person with your level of knowledge would find a need to use such divisive rhetoric in regard to other people's nationalities. I am just wondering.... are you WASP?
RMT
When one uses the word "infested" in relation to a group of people that are associated only through their nationality, I find it difficult to find anything other than negative connotations. Here are the definitions for "infested"
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/infested
<font color="red">1. To inhabit or overrun in numbers or quantities large enough to be harmful, threatening, or obnoxious: rats infesting the sewers; streets that were infested with drugs.
2. To live as a parasite in or on: livestock that were infested with tapeworms. [/COLOR]
I was first mildly shocked by your "jewbaiting" in more than one post. But now with this I am just plain sad that a person with your level of knowledge would find a need to use such divisive rhetoric in regard to other people's nationalities. I am just wondering.... are you WASP?
RMT
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- #14
That's an accurate definition.
Overrun: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/09/16-illegals-sue-arizona-rancher/
Threatening: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/01/10/20090110borderviolence-ON.html?&wired
Parasitic: http://www.santafenewmexican.com/National%20News/Octuplet-mom-s-costs-may-fall-in-taxpayers--hands
WASP?
Overrun: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/09/16-illegals-sue-arizona-rancher/
Threatening: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/01/10/20090110borderviolence-ON.html?&wired
Parasitic: http://www.santafenewmexican.com/National%20News/Octuplet-mom-s-costs-may-fall-in-taxpayers--hands
WASP?
KerrTexas
Timekeeper
Don't take me for a fool, Origin !
If you can't take responsibility for your hateful, racist comments, then I not only feel sorry for you, but pity you.
Not surprising, a weak and lame response ! Another demonstration that you are the type of man that doesn't have the cojones to stand up and apologize for in-competent, un-just, un-intelligent remarks just like the one quoted, and as written by YOU.
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KerrTexas
Timekeeper
Interesting reply. Wanted to make sure I got it copied and pasted before you realized what it was you said and deleted it.
ROFLMAO !!!
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Angleochoas
Timekeeper
I think the idea here was that illegal Mexicans serve a purpose filling a void where others are not willing to pick up the work.
They seem to be bearing the brunt of some frustration where the problems are bigger than just farm labour etc.
If there was a legal system put into place for this void to be filled, resentment would probably dissipate...maybe not - some minds are soldered.
If any of the laid off where going down to agricultural places where said Mexicans were working, and asked for the job, there would be a different discussion - I don't hear of that happening.
Who knows what the future holds? Maybe one day a system will be put into place that sorts all of this out.
They seem to be bearing the brunt of some frustration where the problems are bigger than just farm labour etc.
If there was a legal system put into place for this void to be filled, resentment would probably dissipate...maybe not - some minds are soldered.
If any of the laid off where going down to agricultural places where said Mexicans were working, and asked for the job, there would be a different discussion - I don't hear of that happening.
Who knows what the future holds? Maybe one day a system will be put into place that sorts all of this out.
RainmanTime
Timekeeper
You should get your facts straight before you use them in an argument.
That example of a parasite is a born-and-bred American citizen. Not an illegal Mexican. But I am sure with a little work you can find a story of illegal aliens giving birth in a Dallas hospital.
But the point here is that the cases you gave were individuals. The slur of "infestation" was against a whole people. Nadya Suleman is, indeed, a parasite on society. That is a manifestation of her individual personality, and has nothing to do with her nationality, and certainly not her legality as a US citizen. The other two examples you gave were also individuals who are clearly acting improperly. It is even a fact that any of the people who crossed the border and are working here without a green card are breaking the law. Just like there are plenty of home-bred American citizens that are also breaking the law.
So the point is: Why do you think it is OK to denigrate an entire culture with such hateful words, but you are not willing to denigrate your own culture the same way? I would suggest the answer is because you know not all Americans are the same. Why you cannot see fit to extend the same courtesy to another culture is the puzzling part.
Yes, we have border problems. That is OUR problem that we allow those problems to continue. Yes, we have people seeking to flee the corruption and dysfunction that is their Mexican government. That is THEIR problem and they must choose what is best for them, as individuals. But neither of these facts make it "right" or acceptable to paint an entire culture of people as if they are all the same.
WASP... Google it. Or are all people from your culture lazy?
RMT
That example of a parasite is a born-and-bred American citizen. Not an illegal Mexican. But I am sure with a little work you can find a story of illegal aliens giving birth in a Dallas hospital.
But the point here is that the cases you gave were individuals. The slur of "infestation" was against a whole people. Nadya Suleman is, indeed, a parasite on society. That is a manifestation of her individual personality, and has nothing to do with her nationality, and certainly not her legality as a US citizen. The other two examples you gave were also individuals who are clearly acting improperly. It is even a fact that any of the people who crossed the border and are working here without a green card are breaking the law. Just like there are plenty of home-bred American citizens that are also breaking the law.
So the point is: Why do you think it is OK to denigrate an entire culture with such hateful words, but you are not willing to denigrate your own culture the same way? I would suggest the answer is because you know not all Americans are the same. Why you cannot see fit to extend the same courtesy to another culture is the puzzling part.
Yes, we have border problems. That is OUR problem that we allow those problems to continue. Yes, we have people seeking to flee the corruption and dysfunction that is their Mexican government. That is THEIR problem and they must choose what is best for them, as individuals. But neither of these facts make it "right" or acceptable to paint an entire culture of people as if they are all the same.
WASP... Google it. Or are all people from your culture lazy?
RMT
