PamelaM127 requested I discuss what I know

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I too requested that he talk more about aliens. The thing I wondered about is how does he know how they feel about us?

I also requested he speak on things he saw a billion years in the future...are we even still on earth??

What does he think about other worldlines??

Darby, I saw some of his postings and thought he would be interesting to talk to. I contacted him.
 
I want to know where to buy these books of his??? It would be a good fiction read.

Eric,

That's the crux of the problem, isn't it? In an early post he says that he's a writer who hasn't finished his first book and in a later post he implies that he has completed several books. And the best that he gets is puffball leading questions.

There "ain't" no book or books, I suspect. It's just another OETWO making it up as he goes along who offers a vague reference to Titor. His favorite year is 2036, you see. Imagine that.
 
My thoughts exactly. He seems to be a hit and run TT like the rest of them.

Yup. Last year when he made a few posts one week he was a gonna provide the diagrams for a time machine that he saw in the future (circa 2070). OETWO. He disappeared for a year and seems to have forgotten about those danged diagrams...and probably assumed that everyone else forgot about them.
 
He has went off board to talk.
I really wish some of you guys could sit back and see how you treat the people that are willing to share with you. You don't even give them a chance.

Looks like it is your lost...not mine.
 
He has went off board to talk.
I really wish some of you guys could sit back and see how you treat the people that are willing to share with you. You don't even give them a chance.

Looks like it is your lost...not mine

Or...maybe you should sit back and evaluate why you feel the need to believe everything somebody tells you. Was being hoodwinked once not enough?

A chance, a chance at what exactly? If I want to read fiction I'll go buy a book.
 
I didn't hear enough to make any kind of determination of belief or unbelief for myself.
I did think he was interesting and look forward to hearing more. Sadly it will not be on here.

It looks like perhaps the one poster was right no one here seems interested in hearing anyones experiences in time travel. Maybe this Time travel claims section should be closed.

You have already determined everyone is lieing that is posting before you even ask them any questions.
 
It looks like perhaps the one poster was right no one here seems interested in hearing anyones experiences in time travel.

We'd love to... But one thing: We will NOT simply gloss over proof of time travel as unnecessary. Anyone can tell a story, Pamela. And it seems you are not interested in truth as much as you are interested in a compelling (or not so compelling) story.

You have already determined everyone is lieing that is posting before you even ask them any questions.

Normally, I would say this is a naive statement. But someone is naive only when they do not know better. Pray tell, Pamela, just how does someone reach truth just by asking questions in what amounts to an anonymous environment? On what basis do you hold your belief that all we need to do is ask people interesting questions (or not so interesting questions), and thus we can "enjoy their experiences with time travel?"

Do you ever wish to adopt a scientific attitude about this, or is the next great romantic tale all you are out for?

Extraordinary claims require....well, you know the rest.
RMT
 
He has went off board to talk.
I really wish some of you guys could sit back and see how you treat the people that are willing to share with you. You don't even give them a chance.

Looks like it is your lost...not mine.



I'd seriously love to know by what process you make up your mind whether anyone is telling the truth or not.

It's a process that needs to be gotten over at the start of the proceedings......not 100 miles down the road. Just as in life, you question the credentials of the 'electricity board man' BEFORE he enters your house...not after.

What those such as Darby and Rainman and myself and others exhibit is what is otherwise known as ' a healthy scepticism'. We're all quite prepared for a real time traveller to show up.....and we're pretty damn sure a real time traveller would NOT be put off by a few scientific questions or by a proper scientific approach.

In fact, those most likely to be put off by having their stories probed and analysed are precisely those who are NOT time travellers, don't know the first thing about science, and have invented the whole story 'on the fly' and can't even remember details they gave a few days ago.

Surely the point at which you become 'interested' in a story ought to be the point at which you have made some effort to establish it's veracity. Simply listening to any old blurb and chanting 'tell me more' achieves nothing....if the 'more' is simply more lies to confound the issue. I'm at a complete loss to see what process you are applying that establishes the truth.......as it's clearly not the tried and tested 'scientific method.
 
It looks like perhaps the one poster was right no one here seems interested in hearing anyones experiences in time travel. Maybe this Time travel claims section should be closed.

You have already determined everyone is lieing that is posting before you even ask them any questions.


I find these sort of statements really rather absurd and almost Orwellian in their doublethink. Your statement that we are not interested in hearing experiences of time travel surely poses YOU as being the one who has 'already determined'......that we ARE actually hearing experiences of time travel !

Far from it being us who have determined everyone is lying...it is actually you who seems to have predetermined that every Tom,Dick, and Harry who shows up has some fascinating tale to tell that we should all eagerly engross ourselves in and wait with baited breath for next week's exciting installment.

The notion that any of these claimants ever be subjected to 'remarkable claims require remarkable evidence' seems totally anathema to you. We're just expected to 'show interest'.....without even the smallest scrap of evidence that a claim is true. And every time that any such evidence is asked for....we get met with howls of ' oh look...you've driven off another time traveller '.

It seems to me that what you are asking here....is that absolutely NO process of establishing the TRUTH be applied. Just 'show interest'.....'ask for more'.....without any formal process of ever deciding if it is all true or not.

It thus does not surprise me, therefore, that 10 years later you still cannot grasp that Titor was a hoax.
 
"...that 10 years later you still cannot grasp that Titor was a hoax..."

Twighlight,

I have to ask - why are you so sure about that..?
Just yesterday on Nature, two underground research sites think they may detected something new that they think could be evidence of a Dark Matter particle, maybe not a neutrino.

20years ago the very concept of DM was not even considered a valid scientific theory.
Now we have determined the distribution of DM around super clusters of galaxies and nearer galaxies that we can also consider the stellar motions of our stars in this galaxy being impacted, ie. the velocities of inner stars are the same as outer arms stars which is very 'counter-intuitive'.

In 20years what we will know then - perhaps quantum computers may be a working reality?
With 95% of the matter in the Universe still missing, we really have much more to learn.
But heres a thought, can anti-matter black holes exist for very long? They must have existed at some point in the history of the Universe... but what happens in matter/anti-matter reactions inside a black hole? We can suppose the BH loses mass as it captures normal matter but as far as we know an anti-proton remains such and so mutual annihilation should still result but what of the hard energy released? Perhaps this is what happened to GRB-090423 ~7.5billion years ago.

Anyway, my point?
What if John Titor was not a hoax and if so, what are the possibilities?

\T.

Refs:
http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100226/full/news.2010.97.html
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/27/science/la-sci-neutrino27-2010feb27
 
Tesseract,

"...that 10 years later you still cannot grasp that Titor was a hoax..."

Twighlight,

I have to ask - why are you so sure about that..?

Twilight will have his own responses, to be sure, and they will likely cover ground that mine does not. But let me relate the single biggest piece of evidence (IMO) that sends up the "hoax" red flag:

The story is concoted to be unfalsifiable, and not just in one way, but in many ways. If you are fully aware of the scientific method, then no theory or proposition that is unfalsifiable can be considered scientific. Rather, it is pseudoscience, at best. And the Titor story does not even rise to the level of pseudoscience, IMO.

The primary plot tactic that ensures the story is technically unfalsifiable is multiple worldlines and the concept Titor, himself, introduced but never scientifically quantified: Worldline Divergence. No matter what predictions Titor makes about our future, and no matter what he tells us about our (alleged) future, this plot tactic always "allows" him to be flat-out wrong... which the vast majority of his predictions most certainly were (we just had yet another Olympic games for chrissakes!).

But the funny thing about using this as the CYA plot tactic is this: An astute scientific observer to the story (I like to think I am one) can begin to falsify the story through induction. Namely, he said two things that caused his downfall. Paraphrasing both of these statements: (1) Things might not happen the way I say because your timeline can diverge from the one I experienced, and (2) My instruments told me that this timeline I share with you has about .002377 percent divergence. Clearly, as time ticks by on our worldline, both of these statements cannot hold up. As we have progressed through this decade, we have indeed witnessed the vast majority of Titor's predictions come up flat-out wrong. Hence, with major events like US Civil War and an end to the Olympic Games NOT coming to pass, it is awfully hard to claim such an extremely low divergence, however you measure it. Titor tried sooooo hard to make his story unfalsifiable, he didn't realize that by pursuing the Divergence theme as far as he did, he ensured it would eventually be falsified.

But that is just the main reason I see for it being total bunk. When you sniff around the periphery of the story, especially with respect to scientific discoveries that have come to pass in the interregnum of Titor, we begin to wonder why Titor never talked about certain things. In fact, you pointed out one such scientific discovery which rose to prominence after the NASA WMAP probe returned measurements of total energy in the universe: Dark Matter and its stealthy alter-ego Dark Energy. Why did Titor never, EVER speak of these things? Heck, using either of them in his "dual top-spin micro balck hole" alleged design of his time machine would have made it somewhat more believeable, yes? Well, the reason he did not use them in his story was because a discussion of them was NOT readily available on the internet. No one was really talking about these types of energy until WMAP came back with its results... and that was AFTER Titor's time. Interesting, no?

1) Titor told us that "in the near future" that Cern would discover the basis of time travel technology. Not only was it NOT in the near future, but even today in 2010, Cern is not pumping out ANY major discoveries...yet. So Titor=wrong.
2) On June 30, 2001, NASA launched the WMAP Probe. But it wasn't until 11 February 2003 that NASA published the first set of measurements that told us the relative percentages of the major types of energy: Dark Energy, the biggest, Dark Matter, the next biggest, and the matter we are most familiar with, Baryonic, as the teeny-tinyest! This is perhaps the single largest cosmological science discovery of this past decade, and Titor said absolutely NOTHING about it.

Titor was baloney, and I think you are smart enough to see that.
RMT
 
What if John Titor was not a hoax and if so, what are the possibilities?

And what if I could crap out 24K gold at will? What are those possibilities?

Or what if you could heal all illnesses? What are those possibilities?

Or what if we finally had world peace? What are those possibilities?

My point? One can ask lots of "what if" questions. But it is only through the scientific method that any of them have any sort of practical meaning for our lives. And I think you know that.

RMT
 
"The story is concoted to be unfalsifiable, and not just in one way, but in many ways"

Yes,Tesseract, the story is unfalsifiable...You know...unable to be proven false.
lol.
 
Twighlight,

I have to ask - why are you so sure about that..?
Just yesterday on Nature, two underground research sites think they may detected something new that they think could be evidence of a Dark Matter particle, maybe not a neutrino.

20years ago the very concept of DM was not even considered a valid scientific theory.
Now we have determined the distribution of DM around super clusters of galaxies and nearer galaxies that we can also consider the stellar motions of our stars in this galaxy being impacted, ie. the velocities of inner stars are the same as outer arms stars which is very 'counter-intuitive'.



Well....your premise starts on a logical fallacy ! And a commonly used one at that.

The particular logical fallacy is called 'questionable cause'. It arises where a person takes two 'related' issues and argues that A is somehow the cause of B or proves B.

It is fallacious...because Nature could publish an article on pink elephants for all one knows, yet that does not PROVE that Joe Bloggs down the road actually saw one ! It is THE most common fallacy in believer thinking. For example, people will make statements like ' The probability of alien life is high....therefore what I saw last night in my garden was aliens '.

There is, of course, NO connection. In fact, every claim....be it UFOs or ghosts or time travellers.....has to stand or fall on its own merits.

And yes, I can be 100% certain Titor was a hoax precisely for that reason. To give just one example of a PROOF Titor was a hoax ( and there are many similar ) :-

Rainman mentions Titor's faux pas over the time divergence. Well, there is a worse one. Nobody has ever explained how Titor got a black hole weighing billions of tons onto the back seat of a Chevy ( and without wrecking the suspension ! ). Titor's faux pas was the pic of the 'time machine' bending light.....which means the black hole MUST be extremely massive. Without that pic...he might have got away with ' oh, it's really a very very small and light black hole '. But...Titor just had to go take that pic to impress everyone....and in doing so failed to grasp that by definition he was now implying that his black hole was a monster heavyweight. In fact one would require billions of tons to create that effect. Even the gravity of Mount Everest is negligible at bending light.

There is NO getting round this faux pas. There is no 'maybe' that gets him out of it. It is point blank, irrefutable proof that Titor was a hoax.
 
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