PamelaM127 requested I discuss what I know

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Another thread turned into a john titor thread. Boy for not believing in the guy you sure do discuss him a lot. Lol

By the way just because you don't understand the physics behind "the bubble" does not mean it could not produce this result. If you don't have all the details how do you know it doesn't work? Just because you "say" it couldn't work.
 
By the way just because you don't understand the physics behind "the bubble" does not mean it could not produce this result. If you don't have all the details how do you know it doesn't work? Just because you "say" it couldn't work.

Wrong, Pamela. Absolutely wrong. Because it is not simply Twilight "saying it won't work" because he doesn't have the details. Read and understand this: It would not work based on Titor's OWN claims about how it worked. Twilight is basing his assertion that it will not work on Titor's own explanation of how it was alleged to work. Any device that can bend spacetime enough to make a laser light bend, must also bend all the spacetime around it. There are no other details to know here, despite your attempted ruse. Titor was the one who claimed that photo showed his device bending the spacetime and thus the laser beam. The field theory physics of spacetime that we know to be true would not permit ONLY the spacetime path of the laser being bent without also bending the rest of the field around it. There is no mystery here...there are no further details necessary, beyond Titor's alleged claims. The science is crystal clear on this. And you are blowing smoke, as usual.

But cutesy tootsey Pamela thinks she knows better, or has more details.

There is a big problem here, Pamela: You respond to only that which you can poke fun at. You leave questions lying by the wayside. The biggest question that you never (ever) answer is how you, personally, separate BS from what you believe to be truth. It is apparantly uncomfortable for you to discuss that, because then it would end you little game of holding up false premises.

Why is it that you never (ever, not once) respond to how you separate fact from fiction? Because you never address this issue, and just go on believing any BS that someone here slings, a reasonable observer can only come to the conclusion that you have no means to determine fact from fiction. Now, if you really are as smart as you say you are (and that I do think you are), this cannot be a valid conclusion. So then the only other conclusion is that you purposely avoid discussing how you separate wheat from chaff for an operational reason. I submit that the reason you never discuss this is because it is part of your role in the Titor hoax. A role which you will play to your dying days, from what I can see.

Pamela does not like science, because she clearly cannot deal with its precepts, and she ignores the most important precept which is falsifiability. She plays her role to prop up a fantasy, and just ignores anything and everyting that proves her fantasy is BS. Pretty mature, right there.

RMT
 
ROTFLMAO!!! Rainman you are just too much lol /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Liked all the bold words as well but remember: John Titor is unfalsifiable. Meaning You cannot prove him false.

Sorry... but that's the way it is. You do not have all the info. You really don't but I do very much enjoy reading your posts! /ttiforum/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
First, any "real" time traveler has the opportunity to read through the threads before registering.

That's an excellent point, KT, and though you directed it to Twilight it is a point totally lost on Pamela.

The would-be TT's that have appeared here on a bi-weekly basis for the past ten years have and do read the site before they register, log on and fire away with their sagas. They know what to expect and log on anyway. They make informed choices.

"Pamela Defense? We ain't got no Pamela Defense. We don't need no Pamela Defense! I don't have to show you any stinkin' Pamela Defense!"

Well, you know what I mean. They really don't need Pamela to jump to their defense considering that they knew what they were getting into.

They choose to go ahead with their stories, for the most part, for one of three reasons:

One, knowing what others have faced, i.e. forewarned thus forearmed, they believe that they have prepared themselves for the criticism and accept that as a challenge to overcome. They want to pull off what the rest haven't been able to. They want to out-Titor John Titor. It's a game. No problem.

The second general class are the ones who have also read the site and come on for the specific purpose of setting up people like Pamela so that they can have a horse laugh at them. I do have a problem with that class of TT even though the intended "victims" rarely even realize what the game is really on about except for the rare case where the OETWO fess's up.

The third general case, who again have read the site, are the ones who tell their tale and they end the game by saying that it was all some sort of experiment to see how far they could go before even the Believers' sense of credulity was stretched to the breaking point, they're writing a book and the experiment was to gather information for the book or the experiment was to gather information for some other reason.

Three different motivations with one constant - they've read the site, know the main players, realize that the main players are rather consistent and know what to expect. That's the definition of playing fair. We hear their stories. We get what they are saying. Most of the members quickly pick up on how weak the storylines are and pick them apart.

The real whine isn't that people aren't being fair or are being mean. No, the whine really breaks down to one of frustration because they were unsuccessful in their attempt to get the critics to cross to their side. It's not the critics' collective fault that the would-be TT posts logically inconsistent or outright contradictory statements that are picked up on and made points of criticism.

What Pamela would like to see is for every OETWO to come on, post without criticism and face such deep and revealing questions as what is your favorite food, what does money look like in your time, what is your favorite color? Any other "probing" questions are to be framed as leading questions that imply (or even directly state) the expected answer. No problem as far as it goes but those questions don't reflect the general tone of the forum, don't hold any particular interest for the general member of the forum, reveal nothing of note about the TT and reveals too much about the questioner. No problem asking them but to expect everyone else to hang on their every word and to follow suit with their questions is expecting just a bit too much. People ask their own questions for their own reasons and in a manner that they feel comfortable with. How they choose to move the discussion forward is up to them - not Pamela. There is a feedback mechanism at work here that is far more effective than whining that directs the general tone of our discussions. It's called choice.

And I did mention that Pamela's whine about members driving others away cuts both ways. She drives many members batty and eventually drives them away. The biggest single complaint made about her has always been the same - she wants to control the game, she meets the would-be TT's in private, hand feeds and preps them and brings them on with canned questions. Their perception is that she wants to be the center of attention even transcending the attention afforded the would-be TT himself. It started on Titor Day 2, has continued and has seriously cut into her credibility. The tactic is old, tired and it does drive people away. The very name of this thread clearly indicates the issue for those critics.

The second most "popular" criticism concerns her insistence on people having an "open mind" when her mind on the same subject(s) is closed, locked and welded shut. Their perception is that "open mind" for her is a code word for "I want it my way".

The third long standing criticism is that her whine about fair play reveals a hyprocracy. She has no such criticism for those who support her side and use the same tactics against "the other side" that she condems them for - and that she actively encourages it. No problem having allies but the complaint about fair play is vaccuous given the hyprocracy.

These are well deserved criticisms that are not secrets. They've been made on this and several other sites many, many times over the past ten years.

Of course, she has every right to do any and all of that. She can argue her points any way that she wants to argue them. She does have to 'get over it" in the sense that she believes that she has a right to expect that everyone else will change their tactics because she desires it. That's self delusion.

That Pamela's tactics do drive some people away is not in any sense a whine of my own. It still falls back on the aforementioned feedback mechanism - choice. It's not just the would-be TT's that read the site before choosing to register, log on and post. Everyone does it. When they come on they know who Pamela is and what she's all about. If her tactics end up driving them away so be it. There are other sites and they will find one that fits their mold. In the mean time 50 others will do the same and two or three will end up being long term members here - no different than it has always been.
 
Ray,

Your post and her response actually points out a fourth criticism that I forgot to add: Obfuscation and passive-aggressivism. That criticism was first brought up several years ago.

The extreme overuse of cutsie P-A ROTFLMOA's!!!!, LOL's, insincere smilies, weak one-liners, same-old same-old posts, smart aleck answers, nothing new to add when making non-responsive answers to questions have probably done more damage to her credibility than any other tactic other than the "I want to control the game" tactic. People really do get tired of seeing that from her - year after year. It's childish behavior from someone who is far, far from being a child or teenager.

For sure, there was a time, long ago, when she was viewed by a lot of people as a somewhat sympathetic character. That's no longer the case. It's no longer all that cute or sympathetic for them.

While I don't agree with you that she is an actual insider in the JTF (she'd like to be, but she isn't yet she does like to hint that she is) you are not alone in your belief. Another large reason, caused by her own doing, that she's lost sympathy and credibility.
 
Hmmm... One wonders why the anomalies board is not that active anymore ?

You can say all the nasty things you want to say Darby.

I am well aware of your tactics. Anymore I just laugh at them.

Don't blame me because you didn't ask your questions when he was here. You had every chance to do that. You know what?....he didn't leave because of me. Infact he mentioned one of the reasons he left was because of you.

If I leave the board can you promise me this board will still be active? And that you won't let the place die like you did anomalies?
 
These are well deserved criticisms that are not secrets. They've been made on this and several other sites many, many times over the past ten years.


It has always seemed to me, that for Pamela the social aspect of being one of the 'old guard' and having some imagined importance in the Titor saga....and by implication in this forum......has outweighed any desire to get to the truth.

I suspect that deep down, Pamela knows full well that the Titor story is a load of BS. But she can never admit so......as that would be to admit gullibility and also a degree of complicity. I think she's hankering after a time, long gone, when she was part of the story and could feel important. And the way she feels to do so, is to 'help' any aspiring new 'time travellers' to build up their stories....so she then has a bunch of new people to feel important to.

Clearly, a group of sceptics coming in and ( rightly ) pointing out that 99% of the claims here are pure fantasy.....well, that does not go down to well, as Pamela would rather assert some importance over a bunch of people telling porky pies than have the hoaxers scurry away and then be left with nothing.

Personally, I think we should ALL cut to the chase.......and stop feeling that the only way to prop up this forum is with bogus stories. It is self-defeating.....as no true time traveller is going to want his story drowned out by a load of BS. IF there are genuine time travellers ( and I don't consider that impossible )...let's make this a place they can feel welcome. That welcome includes a scientific perspective......I personally think there is nothing a true time traveller would love MORE than to chat with scientific minded people.
 
By the way just because you don't understand the physics behind "the bubble" does not mean it could not produce this result. If you don't have all the details how do you know it doesn't work? Just because you "say" it couldn't work.


By the same token that I don't need to be a Professor of Pig Aerodynamics to know that pigs cannot fly !

All this ' oh...but it might work if....' nonsense is just very lame excuses from people who are clutching at straws.

I recall having a discussion recently with someone who claimed that Quantum Mechanics was a load of nonsense and scientists did not know if it was true. I pointed out to him the sheer IRONY of him telling me that via a computer whose entire operational design is ( as with all PCs ) actually BASED upon the laws of quantum mechanics. If quantum mechanics was not true.....then we would not be having that discussion !

Quantum mechanics is the most widely applied theory of all time. It is applied in everything from paint colours to nail varnish......not just mobile phones and PCs. Almost half of all the items in your house will have had quantum theory applied at some point in their manufacture. So much for a theory that's nonsense !

And so it is with Titor and his claims. The field equations of General Relativity have passed every predictive test for almost 100 years. Thousands of tests...NOT ONE of which has ever deviated from what Einstein predicted. In fact, it has reached a stage where relativity is also used on a daily basis. Without relativity there would be no accurate GPS, missions to the moon and planets would be a disaster, international telephony would not work...the list goes on.

Scientists DO 'understand the physics' behind it. And every one of those scientists, without fail, will tell you that there is NO WAY that Titor's device could bend a light beam without also bending all the other light in the room. It is on a level of impossibility equal to that of pigs flying !

That is how I can KNOW...with absolute 100% certainty.....that Titor is BS. It is not merely 'an opinion'. It is incontrovertible fact.

You can clutch at straws all you like....but it changes nothing. The one thing you have steadfastly done, over the years, is to just wantonly ignore every single fact that demonstrates Titor was a hoaxer.

You also keep implying that you 'know more that I am telling'. I call BS on that too. It's just the usual ruse to try to maintain interest. Insofar as Titor's machine is a scientific impossibility....whatever else he may have told you would be BS too.
 
There are no other details to know here, despite your attempted ruse. Titor was the one who claimed that photo showed his device bending the spacetime and thus the laser beam. The field theory physics of spacetime that we know to be true would not permit ONLY the spacetime path of the laser being bent without also bending the rest of the field around it. There is no mystery here...there are no further details necessary, beyond Titor's alleged claims. The science is crystal clear on this. And you are blowing smoke, as usual.


Indeed...but the response you get from Pamela only serves to add to the suspicion ( which I have had right from the start ) that she is in on the whole Titor hoax.

The fact is.....anyone who actually is as intelligent as Pamela claims to be would not deny the science. An intelligent person would have no problem grasping what you are saying, and accept that it is undeniably as true as 'pigs cannot fly'.

The ONLY reason I can see for anyone pretending that they don't get the point.....is that they know full well that to admit it would be to admit that Titor was BS.

One then has to ask oneself WHY....even 10 years later.....anyone with half a brain would, despite all the evidence such as yours, still be holding out on Titor 'maybe' being true.

The only conceivable reason....is a vested interest in it being 'true'.
 
Gentlemen,

You folks mention in one breath how easily a real TT or some notable SF author could/has scanned this board and can't spend 2 secs up here before having an extreme urge to walk away. Shame it was not a friend of a friend, Poul Anderson, btw. Sadly & RIP.

I did not want to open this 'box' as it will probably not make me any friends here... but I have been up here all of 7 posts and already I am amazed that writer2036 tried to tell his story, be it true / delusional / fabricated or whatever but in my book, we will still give him the floor to do for a period; and then after that this seems to have devolved in some nasty critique of PamelaM217 for whatever reason some of you think is valid or appropriate. Yes, I have read probably all of the transcript history from 10years ago, incl. PamelaM217's input in the JT saga, but its hardly fair to vehemently attack her for her opinions, beliefs or mindset. Especially with some of the over-tones I see as I scroll up. Most unfriendly.

Gentlemen, this is a forum for knowledge transfer - critique yes, but not one for character assasination or psych-warfare.

0.02
\T.
 
Yes, I have read probably all of the transcript history from 10years ago, incl. PamelaM217's input in the JT saga, but its hardly fair to vehemently attack her for her opinions, beliefs or mindset. Especially with some of the over-tones I see as I scroll up. Most unfriendly.


Actually I wasn't going to respond at all in this thread, until I saw yet another claim by Pamela that someone presenting a scientific response to the thread was 'driving people away'.

I'm all for a civil debate.......but it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a civil debate where one side consistently tries to disarm the other by endeavouring to deny them the very logic, science, and knowledge whereby reasoned debate is possible !

If nobody is ever allowed to say 'that is scientifically impossible'......then to call this a debating forum would be about as farcical as a French Revolutionary trial.
 
Actually it was really rather simple. I read his posts thought he would be interesting to talk to and asked him to post so we could ask him questions and find out more about what he was experiencing.

It really wasn't anything complicated at all you made all the rest of that up in your head. You are really quite ridiculous to tell you the truth.

Simply interested in what he had to say...that was it.

You had your chances to ask him your questions but you didn't. Then you blamed me for not asking the questions you wanted to ask.

I am still interested in him and what he has to say so I will just be talking to him offline. You didn't want to talk to him anyway.

I am embarrassed I asked him to come on and share. I should have just communicated with him by pms and emails.however I thought the other people on the board might be interested to hear what he had to say as well....I was wrong.

Know what it really comes down to? Perhaps you were not worthy to hear what he had to say. This is not an atmosphere that is friendly toward sharing at all.

So it seems like you want only scientists to share on here. Well who is going to be the brave one to ask them here?

Yeah...none of you.

Don't look at me... you guys can just talk amongst yourselves.
 
No...the person who is 'ridiculous' is you, as you make absolutely ZERO effort to establish whether anyone is actually telling the truth before you decide to declare the amazing revelation that they are 'interesting'.

One gets the impression that someone could come on here and declare that their mother was a pink elephant, their dad was a rhinocerous, and they live in a yelow submarine along with the Beetles and Elvis Presley......and you'd be telling us all how 'interesting' that was.

As Rainman stated...your process for seperating fact from fiction is non-existent. Any two bit yarn spinner can come on here...and it's the same old ' simply interested in what they had to say '. I get the impression you must spend your entire life speaking to Brooklyn Bridge salesmen and finding them absolutely fascinating.

And frankly.....you sum it all up with your ' you're not worthy ' type statements. It shows a somewhat deluded person with a cultist mentality. Yeah....right......I'm quite sure the rest of us are NOT worthy to meet the beings in the spaceship behind the comet !
 
I am embarrassed I asked him to come on and share. I should have just communicated with him by pms and emails.however I thought the other people on the board might be interested to hear what he had to say as well....I was wrong.


ACTUALLY the thread fell apart when it became apparent that the OPer could not even remember his own story. For example, totally contradictory statments such as......


Again I look for signs that indicate what the date and year is. I also compare other decades to each other and they don't seem to change too much in ten years. I'm kind of disappointed I expected to see clothing to be a lot more outrageous in the 2020's and 2030's.
There is a slight difference in fashion of the 2020's than of the 2030's. The fashion of the 2020's isn't all that different from now.


.....compare with....


Both women and men eventually become so apathetic towards themselves and each other that they literally appear to be wearing not much more than rags. A lot of People just seem to stop caring about looking nice and don't care if they look absolutely awful and don't even shower for days at a time. Eventually women, some who are famous start to realize how bad this is effecting society. From what I can see future movie stars, musicians and politicians some of which I do not recognize speak out openly about the need to reset our standards of what we wear, do and say. It looks to be about 2019 at this time. Some of them start wearing clothing that were literally made in the 1950's and 60's. In fact I am sure I have seen some movie stars already wearing clothing inspired by the 1950's or 60's look.

The Fashion Industry sees that there is new profitable market in recreating clothing inspired by clothing from 50's and 60's. Where previously it was considered a not profitable niche market and not considered widely accepted by the majority of people. but in the 2020's that view appears to have shifted to the exact opposite of that. Around the same time men are seen wearing wearing similar 1950's and 60's inspired clothing that in turn seems to have created 50's and 60's recreations for men by the fashion and clothing industry.

All this looks to have developed over a decade starting from around 2019. So much happens in these years regarding this subject. Again I thank you for bringing up that question Ebb.



Those two statements are TOTALLY CONTRADICTORY. In one he is stating that 2020 fashions are no different to now.....in the other he states that people go to pot, and then go back to 50s styles. These statements cannot BOTH be true.

The reason for this is quite simple. What you have is someone who has typed so much BS that they forgot what they said earlier.
 
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