atomic theory/ cell theory

[ruthless]

i had a few ideas, and i just wanted to share them and maybe get some feedback.

atomic theory:

my idea is that the universe is just one big giant atom. when i look at an atom, and when i look at our solar system, or our universe for that matter, i see similarities. they both have objects orbiting around something.

cell theory:

basically, my idea is that our universe is a cell, and that the bigger object that we cannot see is comprised of these cells. i think it is possible that the boundaries of space and time are similar to how the inner workings of a cell do not escape.

i think that it is possible that these theories may explain the big bang. either by the cell "splitting," or the density of the atom became so great and radioactive that it exploded.

 

[Easdraagl]

Im going to take your theories a step further.

Atoms are a lot more like cells than we suppose, with other bodies in them besides just electrons protons and neutrons, we just don't have the technology to definitively detect them. Cells are larger atoms, Organisms are larger cells, and so it goes on up the organizational hierarchy, eventually reaching the universal level.

I guess you could say that as you travel down the hierarchy, the communities are more "evolved". For example, a cell is made up of organelles that all function in unison, as regulated by the DNA in the nucleus, and if any go wrong the cell will fail. An organism is made up of similar bodies, except that instead of organelles we have organs, and organs still function well without too much regulation, except in an organism there is the presence of the central nervous system that sometimes has to consciously force its hand to regulate. i.e. when we consciously breath. After that we have ecosystems or communities, and you can consider the organisms themselves to be the organelles, all playing a role in sustaining the body, and if one group of organisms gets too big for its britches than the entire ecosystem can die. However an ecosystem is a less evolved body of beings because it has no central nervous system or nucleus to regulate it

Am I making any sense?

 

[RainmanTime]

The bigger theory here is systems theory. That is the basis of what you put forth, ruthless. Sorry, I was not supposed to post for the whole year, but this post was too good to pass up. And BTW, I'm proud of you, Carey. Back to silent until 2012!

RMT

 

[Gpa]

Ruthless,
I've considered your idea too. Its an interesting "coincidence?" how systems keep a similar frame work from the micro to the macro to the mega system. It makes me wonder how there couldn't be a grand design.
I remember a TV show many years ago that involved the same idea. I can't recall which show it was but it may have been either The Twilight Zone, The Outer Limits, or another show of that type and era. I remember it was black and white. Perhaps someone else may recall it.
It involved a couple of scientists considering the structure of an atom and wondering what might exist inside it. The atom was fairly unknown at that time. They thought there might be something like a miniature civilization within. As the show ended, the camera began backing away from the two scientists in their lab, out of the building, then further away, up into the air, away from the earth, through the solar system, moving out and away from the galaxy, further out into darkness, then suddenly, through a glass window and back into a room with 2 scientists looking through the window at their experiment, containing US!
I remember that show because it freaked me out back then. Maybe someone else will recall it and I may be able to find it and watch it again and see how well I really do remember it. I have been looking but with no luck yet.

 

[Darby]

atomic theory:

my idea is that the universe is just one big giant atom. when i look at an atom, and when i look at our solar system, or our universe for that matter, i see similarities. they both have objects orbiting around something.

A good thought, one that has been pondeder before (including by Larry "Pinto" Kroger in Animal House

).

The idea, unfortunately, falls apart when we consider the quantum nature of electrons "orbiting" atomic nuclei. They don't, at least not in the classical sense of a planet orbiting a star or a moon orbiting a planet. The electron is smeared out as a probability wave that occupies the entire universe. In quantum physics they talk about the electron cloud surrounding the nucleus rather than individual BB-like objects.

This idea in QM has no classical equivalent. The classical approximation (BB's or billiard balls orbiting a bowling ball) is taught in high school physics because very few high school students study math up to calculus, which is required to study QM (or any other form of advanced physics).

That being said it is still good to see you thinking about these issues and making logical guesses about their meanings. Physics as a science wasn't invented in a day and there was an awful lot of guessing done that couldn't be experimentally verified until technology caught up with the thought experiments. Just ask the physicists that did the Castle Bravo nuke test in 1954. They thought that they had constructed a thermonuclear device that would have a yield of ~4.5 MT. They were experimenting with Lithium-6 mixed in with the Deuterium and Tritium in the pit. Lithium-6 is not fusible (at the pressures and temperature in a hydrogen bomb). But they learned something. The temperatures, pressures and velocities of the neutrons is sufficient to fission it into Deuterium and Tritium - the stuff that fuses into helium in the pit. Result? Lots of extra neutrons released that they hadn't expected thus lots of extra fissions in the Plutonium that they hadn't expected. So, they didn't get their 4.5 MT yield, it was 15 MT and it nearly blew the entire island and research crew into orbit and 7,500 yeards away from Ground Zero it blew the 20 ton blast door of an unmanned instrument bunker out the back wall like it was a rag doll. Oops!

Good job.

PS: Castle Bravo Oops humor aside it really was a tragic accident. The yield was so large that it spread fallout over 6,000 sq miles of the Pacific Ocean, irradiated the Marshall Islands and its populace as well as a fleet of Japanese fishing boats. Needless to say, Japan was not amused and the accident was the initiator of the above ground and atmospheric test ban on atomic weapons.

 

[Gpa]

"The idea, unfortunately, falls apart when we consider the quantum nature of electrons "orbiting" atomic nuclei. They don't, at least not in the classical sense of a planet orbiting a star or a moon orbiting a planet. The electron is smeared out as a probability wave that occupies the entire universe. In quantum physics they talk about the electron cloud surrounding the nucleus rather than individual BB-like objects."

Agreed Darby, but I wonder, if it were possible to view the universe from the perspective that our solar system is the size of an atom and the time frame also relative to that, would the planetary orbits move in and out thru an equatorial orbit (not all orbits are strictly equatorial) so that they would then appear to 'smear out as a probability wave'? Asked in another way, where the planets orbits always equatorial or did they become so over time due to the angular momentum of the suns spin and the planets own spin and could they over time move out of the equatorial plane and in a compressed view of time appear to behave like electrons? Just one of my many "out of the box" ideas.

 

[ruthless]

actually, they are probably harder on me than you. they expect more from me. but i figure they wouldnt say anything if they didnt care. sometimes they can push a little too hard, but then again, extreme heat and pressure makes a diamond. if you want to be friends to the"elders," you have to deal with the associated b.s. i guess i do that myself nowadays. i just have to remind myself that we are all equal and we all have problems.