# The Twin Time TTravell:llers

#### Blair

##### Temporal Navigator
WELCOME!!
The Two Time Travellers!!

The first time traveller travells back and changes the past then returns to were he left.

If the changes that the first time traveler made are no good then the second time traveller stops the first one from travelling into the past.

That way you can travell back change the past and if you don't like it you can stop it!
This way you only need one time line the one we are on now i hope.

11:11

Ok i will explain how it works.

The time is 11:11pm Saturday 2112 the two time travelers set the mission.
The first time traveler goes into the past and makes the change.
The first time traveler travels back to the same time he left one second later 11:12pm Saturday2112.
Then the second time travel says i will see you at 12:14pm Saturday 2112 goes back to 12:13pm Saturday and waits in his machine for the first time traveler to reach him and they meet up 12:14pm Saturday 2112 back on the same time together.

The second time traveler waits to see if the changes have worked. If they have then all is fine.
But the second time traveler moves forward in time 12:12pm Saturday 2112 and waits to see if the changes are ok.
If not then the second time traveler jumps into his machine and stops the first time traveler from leaving in the first place 11:11pm Saturday 2112.
Then the second time travel says i will see you at 12:14pm Saturday 2112 goes back to 12:13pm Saturday and waits in his machine for the first time traveler to reach him and they meet up 12:14pm Saturday 2112 back on the same time together.
The second time traveler waits to see if the changes have worked. If they have then all is fine.
But the second time traveler moves forward in time 12:12pm Saturday 2112 and waits to see if the changes are ok.

P.s
The time machines were built before the trip back so if they change the past and time machine were never built it stop the paradox of the machine being built.

11:11
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FOOT NOTE:
If the first time traveller goes back and saves himself then he never returns to the time of 11:12pm Saturday 2112. if the time traveler does not return then the mission failed and the second time traveller stops the first time traveller from leaving thus the stop the mission from ever happening!!

Try this problem fix tell me what you think!!

Your father passes away in the past but that event changes your life and makes you find a way to time travel.

If he does not pass then you dont invent time travel right?
Ok the fix.
The Two Time traveller one being you whos father passes in the past.
the second your best mate who has helped you invent time travel.
You travel back in time and save your father from passing and bring him into the future only after your otherself knows he has passed so you invent time travel. You then meet up with your father after you invent time travel and travel back and get him now you are both in the future and no one will ever know except you and your family.
Complected but simple.
11:11
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Best Regards
Blair
Happy New Year 2005.
I think its called heaven were you both meet up again in the future.
Thy kindom come thy will be done on earth as in heaven.

Re: The Two Time Travelers 11:11

Yea. The second time traveler would not notice any changes. What ever changes would be instantaneous and everyone would be convinced that that is the way things always were. Only the first time traveler would be aware of the changes and then have to tell the second one how things were before and how it was a mistake for him to have gone back. The second traveler would then go back because he would know the results of his trip, but when he got back the first traveler would forget what changes he had made (temporarily) so then everyone would then be ignorant of what the first trip did and it would probably be repeated ad infinitum.

Re: The Two Time Travelers 11:11

The problem with the first solution is still the Grandfather parado. When the 2nd TT returns in time to stop the 1st TT from going to the past, that means that TT2's original voyage to the future gives him the impression that nothing bad has happened asa result of TT1's voyage to the past. Therefore he doesn't go back to stop TT1 from his mission. Therefore TT1 alters the past and when TT2 travels to the future, he'll want to go back and stop TT1. It's confusing but the age old paradox still exists!

The second example could maybe work except for the problem of how do you convince your past self that your father had a heart attack? Afterall, your future self for all intents and purposes just made your father disappear! Why do you need a friend with a time machine for this example?

Interesting ideas - but I think the only way to eradicate the paradox problem is to gain a better understanding of the actual nature of time!
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James

Re: The Two Time Travelers 11:11

JamesAnthony wrote:

&gt;&gt;Interesting ideas - but I think the only way to eradicate the paradox problem is to gain a better understanding of the actual nature of time!&lt;&lt;

Very good, James. You hit on the main "problem" of time travel that may folks do not want to confront for what it is: The concept of the paradox and what it implies. The mathematics of set theory tell us that there is one and ONLY one conclusion that can be drawn from ANY paradox: not enough information. In other words, you are trying to deal with an "open" set as if it were "closed". This is the same mistake people make when they try to quote the second law of Thermodynamics as an unviolatable "law". The major premise of the 2nd Law is that it applies "for a closed system of energy that is far away from temperature equilibrium." So far, no one that I know of has found/identified any completely closed set/system!

The paradox is a signpost telling you that "you don't have enough information." Once you have enough information, the paradox goes away. The most classic example is trying to use the following single statement as a "closed" system of logic: Everything I tell you is false. Clearly a paradox, as once one interprets it as TRUE one must then also intepret it as FALSE. In reality, it only means that I need more information about the person making this statement before I can ascertain its veracity.

The same is true of time travel, as you have pointed out. The linear, cause-effect view of time is obviously incorrect by the sheer fact that we can find paradoxes as a result of traveling thru our perceived linear time. In continuing to view time as we have, and thus trying to deal with paradoxes that canot be solved, we are simply being slaves to our perceptions.

I posted some info awhile back when I joined this board about a "new" view of Time. One that states that Time (just like space and mass) is 3-dimensional in nature. And the interactions of these 3 pieces of 3 dimensions each (Mass-Time-Space) make up a 3x3=9 dimensional, interwoven matrix of physical reality. I didn't see any response to this view of Time from anyone; however, all the science I have ever studied (I am a 40 year old practicing flight control system design engineer, so I've had my share of science) tells me that this 3-D view of Time can erase the paradoxes of our linear view of Time.

Kind Regards,
RainmanTime

Re: The Two Time Travelers 11:11

But I did think of something whilst I was reading.

Lets assume for a moment that the view of linear time, and singular universes is actually true....

This would force us to view that paradoxes are impossible, assuming backwards time travel is possible.

Whats done in the past, from anyones point of view, is already done.

If that past includes your personal intercations (ie though time travel) then so be it.

Say I took a trip back ten years, and tried to shoot a younger version of myself, I would already have as part of my history a 'close escape' because given the linear assumption, it would be impossible for me to succeed.

If however I went back a tried to kill my father/grandfather etc, again, I would fail, because my actions in the past have already existed in time.

So, from this, my assumption is that any events in history have already been done, its almost as though history has already been written, and there is nothing I can do, other than play out my role, under seemingly free-will.

This is a very scary thought, because it implies that we are all but passengers, or even that perception of the passing of time is such that we are only observers ?

If backwards time travel is possible, then the implications, given linear time, is that we have zero control over our own destiny. Why then do we assume that we make desicions, when whatever decision that we make, has either already been made by ourselves, and we are just observers, or alternatively we have no actual control in this 'reality'.

The off-shoots from this are that either...

1) Backwards time travel is impossible, due to the paradox issues
2) Forwards time travel is a one-shot deal, and there is simply no way back
3) The multiverse concept is true - and each of our choices, spawn an infinite number of alternate 'realities'.

Re: The Two Time Travelers 11:11

You worded your sentances a little weird so I'm not sure if you covered this with an answer.
Say you built a time machine and it worked, and there where no different timelines or worldlines, and you took this timemachine and went back to before you finished it and stopped your self from finishing it, what would happen? Because if it was never finished then you wouldn't be able to use it to go back in time to stop yourself so it would be built then you would be able to stop yourself from building it, and now i'm going to stop so i don't keep typing the same sentance over again.

sorry about the run-on sentance it's jsut how I type.

Blair you've seen timecop 2 haven't you?

Re: The Two Time Travelers 11:11

zip lip
11:11
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Re: The Two Time Travelers 11:11

Blair you have seen Timecop 2 haven't you, it explains all what you are saying, i've seen it so i know exatcly what your saying, kinda like you don't miss what you've never known, if it was stopped from happening then no one knows about it, hence no one can tell it was going to happen.

Re: The Two Time Travelers 11:11

11:11
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I AM NOT A TIME TRAVELLER.

Re: The Two Time Travelers 11:11

There is one question that might disperese all of these questions, and that would be, how fast does time move. What I mean by that is how long will it take for the changes to occur in the future. And if there is no time delay then wouldn't all the problems be fixed the instant they were created because if time takes no time to change it self if the changes are made in the past then would you notice the difference once you got back "home" and then travel back to re-fix the problems and since you'd be in the past you wouldn't know about the changes in the future but you would have to complete your misson and return and once you found out things were wrong you'd go back to re-change the past to make it right again. But since time takes not time to change once you got back to the present the first time (before you would have gone back to make the changes) the changes would have been righted so you wouldn't have gone back you fix them, therefore the changes wouldn't have needed to be made because they had already been fixxed, but since they were fixxed you wouldn't ahve to go back, so would that undo teh changes you made?

I'm seriously starting to think about just saying theres multiple timelines and leaving it with that and ending these damn Paradoxial thinking sessions.

Re: The Two Time Travelers 11:11

Two Time Traveller.11:11

MISSION WAS COMPLETED AND ALL IS WELL
IM NOW IN THE PAST HI SEE YOU IN THE FUTURE.

11:11

Re: The Two Time Travelers 11:11

I HAVE ENJOYED THIS TOPIC VERY MUCH.

11:11
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Re: The Two Time Travelers 11:11

Yep, i've spent the better part of 2 years trying to figure out these damn paradoxi but my friends either don't have the patience or the understanding to carry on a challenging sentance with me. I think i'm going to like thsi place very much.

Re: The Two Time Travelers 11:11

I think that is how a paradox works.

11:11
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Ive spent 25 years studying time travel and im now 36 i have a NO IDEA about it!!
ok in to the past i go zipppppp lipppppp gone.

Re: The Two Time Travelers 11:11

THIS paradox works, well it's not really a paradox because there can be an answer ,I'm guessing. There are more than one paradoxi, a paradox is just a question that has no answer. But yea, i like to think i have a good grasp on these sorts of things.

Re: The Two Time Travelers 11:11

Two Time Traveller.11:11

MISSION WAS COMPLETED AND ALL IS WELL
IM NOW IN THE PAST HI SEE YOU IN THE FUTURE.

Edited by Blair (12/30/2112 11:11 PM)
wow this message board is still here amazing.
see you in the past.
IM GOING TO FIX THE PAST AND READ MY POST SOME 108 YEARS AGO.

P.S IM NOT A TIME TRAVELER.

11:11
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Re: The Two Time Travelers 11:11

Re: The Two Time Travelers 11:11

but it would only work if the second time travler went back farther than the first so that he is not affected by the changes and still remebers the world the way it was.

Re: The Two Time Travelers 11:11

REMEMBERING WHAT YOU HAVE CHANGED TAKES TIME TO LEARN YOU CAN CHANGE LOTS OF THING VERY QUICKLY AND FORGET WHAT YOU HAVE DONE.

A GOOD HEART WILL NEVER CHANGE EVEN AFTER YOU THINK IT NOT WITH YOU ANY MORE.

IM GUESSING YOU NEED TO HAVE SET RULES AND ONLY CHANGE WHAT YOU BOTH AGREE ON AND WHAT IS ON THE TAPE YOU BOTH WATCH IN THE FUTURE TRUST IS THE ISSUE HERE COMPLETE TRUST.

11:11
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A GOOD HEART WILL ALWAYS BEAT FOR YOU IN THE "MUSIC" YOU WILL HEAR IT STRONG AND LOUD AND KNOW IM WITH YOU EVERY STEP OF THE WAY TO KEEP YOU STORNG TILL YOU REACH YOUR DREAM MY SON.

Re: The Two Time Travelers 11:11

THANKS KEVEN
11:11
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