I am a Time Traveler from 2026.

[Kanigo2]

Re: AND HISTORY REPEAT\'S IT SELF

Money with expiration date:
Good until 31 December 2008...

Haha!

Has been tried before--I don't remember the Harvard professor that wrote the paper between the masculine and feminine properties of money--he had made the comparison of old Egyptian currency that would loose value over time/ so it was best used quickly for upgrades to the farm and such.

It was a currency that was rated on the value of the grain they deposited-but through loss mold pests/barring any natural occurrence there would be less grain over time. So in effect the currency itself would also loose value.

In effect it was a tradable issue of currency,that lost value over time.

Man, it was a while ago I read that paper.



Nice reference, though, recall.

 

[Micheal_Apathy]

Re: AND HISTORY REPEAT\'S IT SELF

i cant decide who's more annoying zeshua or hdrloser

 

[Packerbacker]

Re: AND HISTORY REPEAT\'S IT SELF

Re: "Money with an expiration date..."

What is being talked about is scrip which progressively loses value until it becomes worthless.

About 15 years ago, an individual I know who had served in the military as a sergeant in security told me that the government had pallets of printed scrip stored at Fort Knox in case there was a meltdown of the dollar.

If the dollar becomes worthless, this scrip would be introduced. The expiration date is to prevent hoarding and profiteering.

While the government often seems blundering and incompetent, the bureaucrats are farsighted and thorough.

What happens if the external oil supply simply stopped? Semi's and tractors would not grind to a halt.The government would probably nationalize domestic oil and institute rationing.

Concerning the present crisis: do you actually think these hundreds of billions of dollars are being thrown around with the expectation that this debt will ever be repaid? During the Clinton administration there was an attempt to balance the budget by filching money from Social Security--but you can only do that once. In the Bush era, I think they had decided that there was no way to pay out the mounting debt, so what the hell. Like the person facing bankruptcy who decides to have one last fling on the credit cards.

What their way out is, I really can't conclude. The country isn't going to collapse as long as the government is capable of saving itself. And since it is a sovereign entity, it can just about do what it wants, for example, declaring all public and private debts null and void. Everyone would lose their nest egg, but that's preferable to losing one's life.


/ttiforum/images/graemlins/devil.gif

 

[Peter_Novak]

This is what Economic Collapse looks like

World economic demand is now collapsing along with the yearlong credit collapse. Recent news is full of stories about how world economic demand fell off a cliff in October 08. Every sector is being hit, from new cars to recycled cardboard. In each case, October is pointed to where economic demand fell off a cliff :

* Cars with nowhere to go in Long Beach harbor, California. Japanese ones! “The ships keep coming, but there’s nowhere for the cars to go,” Mr. Golledge said. “Not far away, metal, cardboard, paper and plastic are piling up in the lot of Corridor Recycling. The company takes in refuse from around the country, then bales it for shipment to China. The cardboard is used to make new boxes while used shrink wrap is turned into shoe soles and insulation for sleeping bags and coats. For much of this year, the company shipped about 25 containers a day, each filled with 23 tons of refuse to be recycled. But after the Olympics, demand slowed for recycled metal. In October, demand for everything else took a sharp downturn, and for the last two weeks the company has not shipped a single container. “It just came to a complete stop. Absolutely a stop,” said Gilbert Dodson, the recycling company’s co-owner. “I’ve seen it slow over the last 25 years, but this is the worst,” he said of the current downturn.” There are stories about ships all over the world stacking up in exporting countries, anchored, and not able to sail because they cannot get letters of credit for the shipments. Hong Kong was mentioned as having rows and rows of loaded but idled ships stuck there. The same goes for oil tankers, lines of them anchored even though they are full, with no buyers. There has been a screeching halt of shipping worldwide. Products are backing up in Asia. Many of you have heard about the collapse of the Baltic Dry index, a shipping index for containers. It has fallen from over 11,000 in July to around 800, in only a couple of months!

* Over 100,000 factories in China are to close by the end of the year. Chinese plant owners are abandoning their plants, unable to pay their bills, and abandoning workers with months of back pay unpaid. That is so serious that riots are breaking out in Chinese cities, and even now there is 10 Pct unemployment in some of the biggest exporting cities in provinces like Guangdong. Unemployment in the cities is one thing that scares China. That’s why they came up with that $500 billion stimulus plan. Compared to the size of the Chinese economy, that’s like the US coming up with a $2 trillion economic stimulus. Such a sudden and immense move is unheard of in China. It’s said that China is actually buying some of their own inventory that is stacking up.

* With the prospects of a US auto bailout shrinking, GM will go bankrupt in a couple of months, they say. If that happens, the commodity complex will take that as a big sell. It’s said that a car uses up to 40 pounds of copper, and a house in the US uses 400 pounds or more. Copper has fallen drastically in the last two months. Copper is considered a barometer of economic demand. There are calls for GM to go ahead and declare bankruptcy while they still have some cash. We just might see that happen right after Congress adjourns for the year, if there is no bailout. The stock crash Tuesday at the end of the day reflected that sentiment. Will we see a GM BK filing sooner than we think?

* Credit spreads have not improved. There is flight out of any and all bonds into US Treasuries of all stripes. Now even 30 year US Treasuries have fallen below 4%, while the 3 months short term USTs are below a half percent, nearing zero. There is literally no money going into new credit of all stripes, and this is worldwide too. Businesses cannot roll over their short term credit facilities. That means they have to operate on a cash basis. This has worsened in the last two months, not improved. What that means is that when the cash runs out, they have to shut down, and layoffs come. Get ready for a horrific next few months of layoff news around the world.

* The literal total absence of credit is stalling ships at the docks. With the supply chain so tight (typically 3 days worth in pipeline) the US may see shortages of many things if this credit meltdown and its resultant freeze on exports continues. Japanese exports have fallen almost 8% year over year, and exports to the EU have fallen an astounding 17%. Japanese auto exports have fallen 15%. Since most everything is manufactured and shipped overseas it’s very possible that we will run out of many things, and so will our trade partners. Right now there is surplus backing up in some things like cars, but after factories worldwide shut down, scarcity will start to appear. That will take some time, but it’s probably coming later. There won’t be any money out there for new production demand by then either. Everybody is over leveraged.

* Layoffs have only just begun. Since inventories are piling up, manufacturers will be shutting down plants worldwide. Big layoffs are coming everywhere. The end of 08, and 09 are going to be the worst layoffs worldwide we have seen since the Great Depression in the 1930s.

* The USD is reaching a tipping point. What’s keeping it alive now is the flight to cash and safety. But that process will peter out, and then the $trillion dollar US fiscal deficits, combined with the pullback of trade partner interest in US treasury bonds will end up killing the dollar. How far off is that stage? Maybe 2 to 4 years. Frankly, I think it’s nearer than we all might think. It certainly is now an imminent concern, not a thing far out in the future. It’s even possible the USD could have a drastic fall in 09.

- Peter

 

[ruthless]

Re: This is what Economic Collapse looks like

"Over 100,000 factories in China are to close by the end of the year."

"GM will go bankrupt in a couple of months"

"Get ready for a horrific next few months of layoff news around the world."

"we will run out of many things, and so will our trade partners"

"scarcity will start to appear"

"The end of 08, and 09 are going to be the worst layoffs worldwide we have seen since the Great Depression in the 1930s."

"the USD could have a drastic fall in 09."

might, will, may...

why dont you try a new concept. its called worrying about the present. from my point of view, the present is just fine and dandy. its nothing like what you describe.

pete, your a nutcase.

 

[recall15]

Re: Comic Batman reaches end of road...

why dont you try a new concept. its called worrying about the present. from my point of view, the present is just fine and dandy.

Just for the present...

The Super Heroes of Comic Books...

Like:

<font color="red"> Warning: If you do not want to know about the plot of Batman RIP, stop reading [/COLOR] now.

Hint:
It is not the first time a superhero has met an unfortunate end in the comic world.

Last year, Captain America was killed after being shot by a sniper in New York.

Why?

Maybe the Global Financial Crisis?
Link to news.bbc.com
Updated at:

<font color="red"> at 09:55 GMT, Friday, 28 November 2008 [/COLOR]

US Fed announces $800bn stimulus
The US Fed says it will inject another $800bn into the economy as it battles to stimulate lending and boost the economy.

KEY EUROPE STORIES
Leaders welcome G20 action plan
Summit pledge to 'restore growth'
Eurozone officially in recession
German economy in recession
UK Bank warns of recession
ING group reports its first loss
Irish jobless rate at decade high

REST OF THE WORLD
Citigroup shares jump on bail-out
Paulson says US bail-out working
OECD projects slowdown
Pakistan to approach IMF for loan
AIG wins new $40bn bail-out cash
GMAC warns on mortgage unit
Australia lowers rates to 5.25%

MARKET DATA - 14:20 UK
FTSE 100
4225.22down
-0.88 -0.02%
Dax
4612.23down
-53.04 -1.14%
Cac 40
3213.33down
-37.06 -1.14%
Dow Jones
8726.61up
247.14 2.91%
Nasdaq
1532.10up
67.37 4.60%
BBC Global 30
5005.18up
9.53 0.19%

/ttiforum/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Packerbacker]

Re: Comic Batman reaches end of road...

All you really need is a good hot meal every day, a shower, a comfortable bed---and maybe a few cans of beer! :D

 

[Kanigo2]

Re: AND HISTORY REPEAT\'S IT SELF

Re: "Money with an expiration date..."

What is being talked about is scrip which progressively loses value until it becomes worthless.

Trust me- what either of what us said about what recall was referring to was probably incorrect, I gave up trying to understand and just post more examples, which you also did.


-------------------------------------&gt;

At least the point of, "Will it be accepted as legal tender?", should still be thrown out there.


I personally feel they need to devalue the currency- by 1/4 to 1/2... Inflation is already coming, but the offset for the currency will force valuations on all EXISTING contracts to 1/4 to 1/2 of the pain to pay for. It will still take time to bring wages up to 1/4 to 1/2 higher, but oh well.

Hyperinflation? hell yes.

Now this HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE- here in America-so I do believe it is possible again.

Accepted by the world as proper valuation of the currency- that's another question. They may require gold instead.

 

[Peter_Novak]

Re: This is what Economic Collapse looks like

why dont you try a new concept. its called worrying about the present. from my point of view, the present is just fine and dandy. its nothing like what you describe.

In a field one summer's day a Grasshopper was hopping about, chirping and singing to its heart's content. An Ant walked by, grunting as he carried a plump kernel of corn.

"Where are you off to with that heavy thing?" asked the Grasshopper.

Without stopping, the Ant replied, "To our ant hill. This is the third kernel I've delivered today."

"Why not come and sing with me," said the Grasshopper, "instead of working so hard?"

"I am helping to store food for the winter," said the Ant, "and think you should do the same."

"Why bother about winter?" said the Grasshopper; "we have plenty of food right now."

But the Ant went on its way and continued its work.

The weather soon turned cold. All the food lying in the field was covered with a thick white blanket of snow that even the grasshopper could not dig through. Soon the Grasshopper found itself dying of hunger. He staggered to the ants' hill and saw them handing out corn from the stores they had collected in the summer.

Then the Grasshopper knew: It is best to prepare for the days of necessity.

 

[Kanigo2]

Re: This is what Economic Collapse looks like

What the hell Peter?

I am a Scorpio....think of the metaphors I can come up with..


Oh by the way, I just needed a ride halfway across the stream, and I floated away-and made the bank downstream.

--In My opinion-just one less @sshole in the world..
(Forgive the language-I needed it to make a point.)



Could you please explain this last statement....I hadn't seen you get philosophical before.

 

[ruthless]

Re: This is what Economic Collapse looks like

so you like stories eh? how did i already know that...

but since you want to go that route, lets do:

"There are many versions of the story, but the basic premise is that a chicken eats lunch one day, and believes the sky is falling down because an acorn falls on her head. She decides to tell the King, and on her journey meets other animals who join her in the quest. In most retellings, the animals all have rhyming names such as Henny Penny, Cocky Lockey and Goosey Loosey. Finally, they come across Foxy Loxy, a fox who offers the chicken and her friends his help.

After this point, there are many endings. In the most famous one, Foxy Loxy eats the chicken's friends, but the last one, usually Cocky Lockey, survives long enough to warn the chicken and she escapes. Other endings include Foxy eating them all; the characters being saved by a squirrel or an owl and getting to speak to the King; the characters being saved by the King's hunting dogs; even one version in which the sky actually falls and kills Foxy Loxy.

Depending on the version, the moral changes. In the "happy ending" version, the moral is not to be a "Chicken", but to have courage. In other versions the moral is usually interpreted to mean "do not believe everything you are told". In the latter case, it could well be a cautionary political tale: The Chicken jumps to a conclusion and whips the populace into mass hysteria, which the unscrupulous fox uses to manipulate them for his own benefit, some times as supper."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sky_Is_Falling_(fable)

"It all actually reminds me of a silly fable set in a farmyard that I read as a child called Chicken Licken. Basically, one day an acorn falls on Chicken Licken’s head. He (it could equally have been a she) then goes around hysterically warning all species of animals (and using vocabulary eerily similar to what Powell used in his famous UN address) that there is “compelling”, “powerful” and “irrefutable” evidence that “the sky is falling”.

The naive animals start to follow Chicken Licken (whom we may consider as Henry Paulson and the lame duck Bush administration) and repeat his mantra “the sky is falling” believing the propaganda more and more with every repetition. The story was full of funnily-named animals, such as Gander Lander (Fannie Mae), Drake Lake (Freddie Mac), Ducky Lucky (AIG), Goose Loose (Goldman Sachs) and Cocky Locky (Merrill Lynch). To escape the imminent end of the world the animals gathered in a shelter that was offered by the cunning Foxy Loxy (the Sovereign Wealth Funds of China, Kuwait, Abu Dhabi and Singapore) who eats them all.

What was intriguing to me was, why were all the adult animals following a hysterical, adolescent chicken?"

http://blogs.zawya.com/sultan/080928074726/

the defense will now rest its case...

 

[Kanigo2]

Re: This is what Economic Collapse looks like

And ruthless--once again---by sheer wit---destroys the claimants opinion..


Good comeback, I would have preferred to allowed said victim, to explain the circumstance-which would have course locked him into an Ideal-of theology.

The prison is much smaller-that way.

Enjoyed, the all inclusive element, though ruthless, but, I still see a way to escape.

I don't allow that luxury-in my way--I simply guide them to the door...the one they choose.

--------------------&gt;

I hope you doing good ruthless.We are square here-for the moment-hope ya enjoyed the turkey/if ya had some.

 

[ruthless]

Re: This is what Economic Collapse looks like

"The prison is much smaller-that way."

aye it is. but it is much less enjoyable that way.

"Enjoyed, the all inclusive element, though ruthless, but, I still see a way to escape."

yes, but pete doesent. he will skirt around it in his zeshua/hdr kind of way. i cant cure the blind, but i can give the element that is needed to cure the blind.

"I don't allow that luxury-in my way--I simply guide them to the door...the one they choose."

i used to do that, but my morals dont allow me to anymore. i have grown past that.

"And ruthless--once again---by sheer wit---destroys the claimants opinion.."

aww shucks, your gonna make me blush! :oops:

 

[ruthless]

Re: Comic Batman reaches end of road...

so thats how you look at it recall? let me speak to you in your native tongue.

The story that drew national media attention when DC Comics killed their greatest hero is collected here. When a hulking monster emerges from an underground resting place and begins a mindless rampage, the Justice League is quickly called in to stop the colossal force of nature. But it soon becomes apparent that only Superman can stand against the monstrosity that has been nicknamed Doomsday. Battling their way throughout America, the two fight to a standstill as they reach the heart of Metropolis. Going punch for punch, Superman finally ends the threat of Doomsday as he throws one last punch and collapses forever.


"STOCK UP NOW ON DC COMICS CLASSICS FOR THE HOLIDAYS!"

http://www.comicbookbin.com/dccomicsnews100.html

 

[Kanigo2]

Re: This is what Economic Collapse looks like

i cant cure the blind, but i can give the element that is needed to cure the blind.

And I, my friend, am trying, It definitely is a measure to your second post of a moral issue/ having to decide the credibility(not stated correctly/ or labeled correctly) of the person involved,or making the statements, as elusive as Peter Just tried-which , I of course laugh at.(no offense ciggy)

i used to do that, but my morals dont allow me to anymore. i have grown past that.

Which of course, I already stated my reasons why, just a child to this environment, is what I am.
Surely, reflection, can help again, as it always does. Point taken and reciprocated.


Still never said if ya had any Turkey , i noticed...




I was gunna say, I wondered what recall would say, but edited the comment for the pict.

Sorry I was having an agreement session with my 10 year old daughter, you can imagine, when it brought in the wife, and so many other things.

I know I am blessed.

 

[ruthless]

Re: This is what Economic Collapse looks like

"Still never said if ya had any Turkey , i noticed... "

nah, we didnt have the money for turkey this year. i did have some ham and dressing though. it was scrumptious. turkey day kinda sucked though. my sis came to town and didnt come see me. i havent seen her in 5 years. well, at least she called.

"Sorry I was having an agreement session with my 10 year old daughter, you can imagine, when it brought in the wife, and so many other things.

I know I am blessed. "

indeed you are. you are also blessed with a great mind.

on another note:

its easy to see that pete is zeshua. if he wasnt, he would be interested in deciphering other codes on this site, but he isnt. easy stuff. but i bet he feels like this story is his baby and he doesent want to let it go. he's just trying to add some fuel to his fire. its not as big as it used to be.

 

[Kanigo2]

Re: This is what Economic Collapse looks like

indeed you are. you are also blessed with a great mind.

And forgive me, I only learned to "accept" compliments just a few years ago-Trust me it is a tool in my arsenal.

By the way, I ate 2, One I cooked the day before, then I soaked in BBQ sauce, just the meat, and made a second(we got for free).

I did, have the feeling ya didn't get one, so I ate an extra portion for you. I promise. Sent a prayer, brother(In silence). Has weighed heavy on me.


No worries.

 

[recall15]

Re: This is what Economic Collapse looks like

What the Turkeys Think about it?

Or How do you give thanks at Thanksgiving?

Link to article...

/ttiforum/images/graemlins/yum.gif

 

[recall15]

Re: Comic Batman reaches end of road...

he Justice League is quickly called in to stop the colossal force of nature.

Shall be Economic in Nature?

/ttiforum/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ttiforum/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ttiforum/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Kanigo2]

Re: This is what Economic Collapse looks like

I enjoyed this one from your article:

First, though, Pumpkin Pie (with pecan and bourbon) because it just sounds so magnificently American, with the crazy insistence of mixing vegetable and nuts and pastry and sugar making it surely marvelous. And also it has bourbon, so if it all goes wrong, at least I have most of a bottle of cooking-whiskey left over to console me.

What I ask is." Bourbon as cooking-whiskey?"



Thats my kinda girl!

Even if she isn't American!