16 year Theory (John Titor)

Curiosity

Temporal Novice
I believe the original post does a much better job explaining the theory than I ever could. I’ll just summarize.

original post here for those interested.

Basically, Titor said CERN would discover the basis for time travel around 2001. In our timeline, CERN begin tests to create miniature black holes in 2017. Adding the 16 year difference to his other claims creates a much more probable timeline.

I think it is a possibility that Titor managed to delay the intended timeline by 16 years. Thoughts?

 
Well, it’s not impossible.

Maybe CERN has already discovered it but kept (is keeping) it a secret. Since CERN was accused after JT’s statement.

 
Seeing how it’s nearly been 5 years since they began testing mini black holes, there is a possibility they discovered something during that time and are just keeping it from public knowledge.
 
There's definitely something to this- the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. I'm definitely going to keep an eye on CERN to see if anything happens!
 
I believe the original post does a much better job explaining the theory than I ever could. I’ll just summarize.

original post here for those interested.

Basically, Titor said CERN would discover the basis for time travel around 2001. In our timeline, CERN begin tests to create miniature black holes
[snip for brevity]

I think it is a possibility that Titor managed to delay the intended timeline by 16 years. Thoughts?
Posted by TimeTravel_0 11-MAR-2001, page 7 of "Topics Limited to 11 Pages...?" (Post-2-Post Forum)

"Therefore, I not only offer you the chance to leave a message to yourself in 2036 but I offer you the chance to leave yourself a message in 1998. I will take any compiled messages and email addressees you provide and send them on the net when I get to 1998.

 


Granted, this will not affect you on your worldline now but you make take some comfort that another “you” on another worldline has the advantage of knowing something you wish you knew three years ago."

Titor/TT0 himself answers your question here. Nothing he does on his "worldline" can affect anything here. He can't delay anything let alone a "timeline" (whatever that means with respect to Many Worlds Interpretation).

A worldline has one meaning in sc-fi and another very specific meaning in physics. A worldline in physics is the trace of a particles movement on a space-time diagram during it's lifetime. Sci-fi proposes it to mean universes. Sci-fi's version makes worldlines seem like railroad tracks with physical junctions and switches/points that allow travel between them. That idea does not exist anywhere in MWI.

The fact that it is inaccessible is the entire premise underlying MWI. Many Worlds seeks to resolve the role of an observer's effect on a system. Unobserved, the system is quantum mechanically in a mixed state. The mixed state is a probability wave that tells you what the chance is for every possible state the system will be in when you finally observe it. This isn't a numbers game. QM proposes the system is actually in a mixed state prior to observation - the state that you will finally observe does not yet exist. You observe the system, the wave collapses and the result is one irreversible outcome (Copenhagen Interpretation). Many World proposes that instead of a collapse to a single irreversible outcome, there is no collapse. Instead a number of alternate universes are created, one for each possible outcome. By definition they are separate and isolated. They have to be so because the separate universe idea Everett proposes purposely makes them so - that's precisely how he resolves the observer problem.

Go back and read the part of the thread I show above. We saved the threads and it is here on the Titor Forum. As an aside note that at the top of page 7 "Trott" makes a post. "Trott" is Dave Trott who, at that time, was a PhD candidate in astronomy. Once he started asking Titor/TT0 questions, Titor/TT0 moved up his planned departure date substantially and left never to be seen or heard from again. :cool:

 
Just a follow-up on the above post:

If you were suggesting that Titor/TT0 had an effect while he was posting here and on Post-2-Post you need to put the situation in perspective. Contrary to what you might have read on this and other sites, TimeTravel_0 was not a big deal on Post-2-Post (P2P). P2P was Art Bell's BBS. There were hundreds of threads and thousands of posters. It was a huge and very busy BBS requiring financing from Premier Radio Broadcasting, the company responsible for syndicating Bell's radio show. At that time both here and on P2P if was unnecessary to register in order to post. I didn't register on either site for quite some time. Anyway, The "Titor" threads on P2P were followed by about 2 dozen people who were almost to a person the same people here.

Compare the couple dozen people on P2P following TT0 to the main forum on P2P. That was Richard C. Hoagland's "Mission Enterprise" forum. He had about a thousand followers. Most of P2P was that forum and they had zero interest in Titor/TT0. All the "Marz Barz" people cared about was the gub'mit conspiracy to deny "The Face on Mars" because that was all Hoagland was on about.

Art Bell shut down P2P one night right in the middle of us posting - no notice, no warning just Poof! the site was gone. Rick Donaldson, Pamela Moore and I became the mods here a short time later. We invited all the orphaned P2P time travel enthusiasts to register here (by this time registration was a requirement). We said no to Hoagland. The Marz Barz crowd and their constant off the wall fighting was a big part of why Bell shut it down. Bell's mod/sysadmin and his wife were completely worn out by the ordeal. We didn't see any benefit.

That's the perspective. The Titor/TT0 discussion on P2P, and that's where the majority of the posts were made, was less than a blip on the P2P radar. The story was virtually unknown. There was no chance it had any impact while he was here. And keep in mind that you can't directly compare the World Wide Web (WWW) of today to 1999. In 1999 there may have been a few thousand people posting on P2P but that was a bunch of people who had some money. Computers were very expensive. Internet access was very expensive - you bought so many minutes a month for a flat rate and paid a per minute rate if you exceeded your base allowance (as I recall on Cox it was something like $45/month for 500 minutes and $.10/minute thereafter). Few people had computers. Few people were running Win 3.1 NT (internet capable Windows 3.0). Even fewer had Internet access. Windows 98 (almost plug-n-play internet set-up) didn't come out until 2000. I didn't get internet access until 1998, less than a year before TItor started posting. Firewall routers (NAT) were just coming out and were not cheap - and they were SLOW. Anti-virus software was in its infancy. That's the world we lived in. That's even less chance for Titor/TT0 to have an impact.

After Titor left this site we had our two or three exasperatingly annoying trolls but otherwise TTI almost died. In reality, by 2002 maybe as many as a hundred or two hundred people had even heard about Titor but it remained only topical to the two dozen that had significant knowledge. So.....

Rick and I purposely pumped up the topic to bring some life back to TTI - otherwise the Titor story was DOA. It worked for a couple of years but people eventually fell away again. And then one hot August night in 2003, a few weeks after the John Titor Foundation (JTF, Larry Haber President and legal counsel) was formed as a Florida corp there was a poster (JTFan) who spammed hundreds of sites all over the world in one night pumping The Book. I still have the notes on an old HDD. But I do recall that everyone at the JTF was using the same email address as JTFan. Rick and I had email contact with the person claiming to be the lead on The Book team. He said there was no Kay Titor - they wrote the book in the studio. He used the same email address. At one point Larry haber contacted us using the same email address. And the physical address for The Book team and CGA graphics design studio were all the same - Larry Haber's client, a professional film production studio, in the same building as Haber's law office. People wondered how a typical internet story teller could come up with the convincing technical drawings. I can't say for sure they were designed and printed in the studio at 800 Celebration Ave. but they surely had the equipment and talent to do so. Actually the graphics design studio was just one department for a full professional movie production studio in the same building. Larry was an officer and legal counsel for that business. (I can't recall the business name - but it is in the notes as well as on some thread in the TTI archive.)

 
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Ren and I discovered that Haber had ties to Disney and they were planning a movie or animation about Titor. I don't have the proof anymore, but what Darby is saying is correct. Ren might still have the proof if anyone needs it. I can ask.
 
PaulaJedi,

Larry absolutely had ties to Disney. Larry was an high ranking exec in the legal department of Disney Corp. By late 2001 we (Rick and I) already knew "a bit" about Larry Haber but had no real details so weren't looking too closely. Then we made the connection through the TOS (Terms of Service) page on TTI that existed in 2002 (Hey, who actually reads the TOS page? I looked because I was curious about something that had absolutely nothing to do with Titor - it was just a lucky find). On the TOS page there was a link to TTI owner's real business (His handle was MOP on TTI). He was a contractor working for The Magical Mouse, Disney's online PR/Advertising group. He set up and ran Disney's ad sites. There was also a link to the Celebration, FL community BBS. He was the Mod and SysAdmin for the BBS. He set it up for Disney. The BBS also had a hotlink leading to this site. On the BBS we discovered Larry Haber was "first citizen" (moved in first) of Disney's futuristic town, Celebration, FL next to Disney World, FL. The BBS was www.34747.com. Today it is a real estate company's website in Celebration (34747 is the Zip Code for Celebration, FL) The connection was solidified when JTFan spammed the world in 2003 and Rick and I started receiving email communication with various people using JTFan's email address - all coming from 800 Celebration Blvd.

 
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What i cant understand is why after all this has been uncovered why people still believe it wasnt a hoax?

Or is that somehow just put aside, and lets just carry on with the story...........

 
What i cant understand is why after all this has been uncovered why people still believe it wasnt a hoax?

Or is that somehow just put aside, and lets just carry on with the story...........
I like it because despite whether he was a real time traveler, it's still a part of internet legend. Someone did make those posts, as Darby says. Someone carried it on long enough to where people like us still enjoy talking about it.

It doesn't have to be real to be interesting, or pose questions that are fun to discuss.

 
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